Feminist SF Wiki - User contributions [en]

Domestic fantasy

2010-04-13T08:04:53Z

208.64.187.190:

[[Fantasy]] about domestic life. This genre places housework, which is traditionally done by women and under-appreciated, in a central place in the story.

==Examples==
*[[Lifelode]] by [[Jo Walton]]
*[[The Interior Life]] by Katherine Blake ([[Dorothy Heydt]])

[[Category:Genres]]
[[Category:Fantasy]]
{{stub}}

Lifelode

2010-04-13T08:04:13Z

208.64.187.190:

A novel by [[Jo Walton]] and part of the small [[Domestic Fantasy]] genre. The book is about a family that includes 4 adults and numerous children. Magic is useful for everyday things as well as adventure-ish things.

On the honor list for the 2009 [[James Tiptree, Jr. Award]]

Works by women eligible for 2010 SF Awards

2010-04-13T08:03:38Z

208.64.187.190:

This is a list of works written by women and eligible for SF awards to be given out in 2010 based on works published from January 1, 2009, to December 31, 2009. Awards that follow this eligibility format include the Hugo, the Campbell, the World Fantasy Award, the Tiptree, and the Phillip K. Dick. (The Nebulas have a rolling period of eligibility for nomination based on the specific date a work was published.) We're listing these works as a form of [[award activism]]: to bring them greater attention, to share information about them for ourselves, and to help avoid problems like the [[2006 Hugo vacuum]]. See [[Eligibility and voting by award]] for a quick index of information about individual awards, and links to the individual award pages for more detail.

Please include here ''any eligible work'', along with the relevant information: title, publication date, and format. For novels, it's useful to search Amazon for the author's name: the list of works has publication date and format right there.

Note: Some awards are based on ''first publication'' and other awards are based on first publication in the US, England, etc. If a work was first published outside of the time period but would be eligible for some awards, please add it and add in parentheses any restrictions or explanations about eligibility.

Related: [[Women eligible for 2010 SF Awards]]

* See [[Eligibility and voting by award]]
* See [[Award activism]]
* See [[2006 Hugo vacuum]]

== Book Length Fiction ==

=== Novels ===
Hugo, World Fantasy, Locus, Bram Stoker and Campbell Memorial eligible: if published in paperback in the US, Philip K. Dick eligible

*[[Ilona Andrews]], ''On the Edge (The Edge, Book 1)'' (September 2009, Ace) Paperback
*[[Catherine Asaro]], ''Diamond Star'' (May 2009, Baen) Hardcover
*[[Margaret Atwood]], ''The Year of the Flood'' (September 2009, Bloomsbury) Hardcover
*[[Kage Baker]], ''Not Less than Gods'' (December 2009, Subterranean Press) Hardcover
*[[Elizabeth Bear]], ''Seven for a Secret'' (March 2009, Subterranean Press) Hardcover
*[[Elizabeth Bear]], ''By the Mountain Bound'' (October 2009, Tor) Hardcover
*[[Lauren Beukes]], ''Moxyland'' (July 2009, Angry Robot) Paperback
*[[Anne Bishop]], ''The Shadow Queen'' (March 2009, Roc) Hardcover
*[[Patricia Briggs]], ''Bone Crossed (Mercy Thompson, Book 4)'' (February 2009, Ace) Hardcover
*[[Lois McMaster Bujold]], ''Horizon (The Sharing Knife, Book 4)'' (January 2009, Eos) Hardcover
*[[Jacqueline Carey]], ''Santa Olivia'' (May 2009, Grand Central Publishing) Trade paperback
*[[Jacqueline Carey]], ''Naamah's Kiss'' (June 2009, Grand Central Publishing) Hardcover
*[[Gail Carriger]], ''Soulless'' (October 2009, Orbit) Mass Market Paperback
*[[Kristin Cashore]], ''Fire'' (October 2009, Gollancz) Hardcover
*[[C. J. Cherryh]], ''Regenesis'' (January 2009, DAW) Hardcover
*[[C. J. Cherryh]], ''Conspirator: (Foreigner #10)'' (April 2009, DAW) Hardcover
*[[Cassandra Clare]], ''City of Glass'' (March 2009, Simon and Schuster) Hardcover
*[[Julie Cochrane]] and [[John Ringo]], ''Honor of the Clan (Legacy of the Aldenata)'' (January 2009, Baen) Hardcover
*[[Suzanne Collins]], ''Catching Fire'' (September 2009, Scholastic Press) Hardcover
*[[Kate Elliott]], ''Traitors' Gate'' (August 2009, Tor) Hardcover
*[[Jaine Fenn]], ''The Consorts of Heaven'' (June 2009, Gollancz) Trade paperback
*[[C. S. Friedman]], ''Wings of Wrath'' (February 2009, DAW) Hardcover
*[[Jo Graham]], ''Hand of Isis'' (March 2009, Orbit) Paperback
*[[Kate Griffin]], ''A Madness of Angels'' (April 2009, Orbit) Hardcover
*[[Charlaine Harris]], ''Dead and Gone (Sookie Stackhouse, Book 9)'' (May 2009, Ace) Hardcover
*[[Kim Harrison]], ''White Witch, Black Curse (The Hollows, Book 7)'' (February 2009, Eos) Hardcover
*[[Kim Harrison]], ''Once Dead, Twice Shy: A Novel'' (May 2009, HarperCollins)
*[[Robin Hobb]], ''Dragon Keeper'' (September 2009, HarperVoyager) Hardcover
*[[Tanya Huff]], ''The Enchantment Emporium'' (June 2009, DAW) Hardcover
*[[Kay Kenyon]], ''City Without End'' (February 2009, Pyr) Hardcover
*[[Katharine Kerr]], ''The Silver Mage'' (November 2009, DAW) Hardcover
*[[Caitlin R. Kiernan]], ''The Red Tree'' (August 2009, RoC) Trade paperback
*[[Nancy Kress]], ''Steal Across the Sky'' (February 2009, Tor) Hardcover
*[[Justine Larbalestier]], ''Liar'' (September 2009, Bloomsbury) Hardcover
*[[Jane Lindskold]], ''Nine Gates'' (August 2009, Tor) Hardcover
*[[Juliet Marillier]], ''Heart's Blood'' (November 2009, Roc) Hardcover
*[[Seanan McGuire]], ''Rosemary and Rue: An October Daye Novel'' (September 2009, DAW) Paperback
*[[Fiona McIntosh]], ''Tyrant's Blood'' (September 2009, HarperVoyager) Hardback
*[[Juliet McKenna]], ''Irons in the Fire'' (April 2009, Solaris) Paperback
*[[Sarah Monette]], ''Corambis'' (April 2009, Ace) Hardcover
*[[CE Murphy]], ''The Pretender's Crown (Book Two of the Inheritors' Cycle)'' (May 2009 Del Rey) Trade Paperback
*[[CE Murphy]], ''Walking Dead (The Walker Papers: Book Five)'' (September 2009 Luna) Trade Paperback
*[[Naomi Novik]], ''In His Majesty's Service'' (October 2009, Del Rey) Hardcover
*[[Helen Oyeyemi]], ''White is for Witching'' (June 2009, Nan A. Talese) Hardcover
*[[Mary Pearson]], ''The Miles Between'' (September 2009, Henry Holt and Co.) Hardcover
*[[Diana Peterfreund]], ''Rampant'' (August 2009, HarperTeen) Hardcover
*[[Cherie Priest]], ''Boneshaker'' (September 2009, Tor) Paperback
*[[Justina Robson]], ''Chasing the Dragon (Quantum Gravity, Book 4)'', (August 2009, Pyr) Paperback
*[[Carrie Ryan]], ''The Forest of Hands and Teeth'', (March 2009, Delacorte Press) Hardcover
*[[Michelle Sagara]], ''Cast in Silence (The Chronicles of Elantra)'' (August 2009, Luna) Paperback
*[[Sharon Shinn]], ''Gateway'' (October 2009, Viking Juvenile) Hardcover
*[[Janni Lee Simner]], ''Bones of Faerie'' (January 2009, Random House) Hardcover
*[[Maria V. Snyder]], ''Storm Glass (Glass, Book 1)'' (April 2009, Mira) Paperback
*[[Catherynne Valente]], ''Palimpsest'' (February 2009, Spectra) Paperback
*[[Jo Walton]], ''[[Lifelode]]'' (February 2009, NESFA Press) Hardcover
*[[Kaaron Warren]] ''Slights'' (July 2009, Angry Robot) Paperback
*[[Kit Whitfield]], ''In Great Waters'' (October 2009, Del Rey) Paperback
*[[Liz Williams]], ''The Shadow Pavilion'' (2009, Night Shade) Hardcover

=== First Novel ===
Locus and Bram Stoker eligible

*[[Lauren Beukes]], ''Moxyland'' (July 2009, Angry Robot) Paperback
*[[Gail Carriger]], ''Soulless'' (October 2009, Orbit) Mass Market Paperback
*[[Amanda Downum]], ''The Drowning City'' (October 2009, Orbit) Mass Market Paperback
*[[Carrie Ryan]], ''The Forest of Hands and Teeth'', (March 2009, Delacorte Press) Hardcover
*[[Kaaron Warren]], ''Slights'' (July 2009, Angry Robot) Paperback

=== Collections ===
World Fantasy, Stoker and Locus eligible - single author, original or reprint, single or multiple editors

*''Returning My Sister's Face'' by [[Eugie Foster]] (March 2009, Norilana Books) Hardcover
*''Push of the Sky'' by [[Camille Alexa]] (June 2009, Hadley Rille Press) Paperback
*''A Book of Endings'' by [[Deborah Biancotti]] (August 2009, Twelfth Planet Press) Paperback
*''Quatrain'' by [[Sharon Shinn]] (October 2009, Ace) Hardcover
*''Scenting the Dark and Other Stories'' by [[Mary Robinette Kowal]] (November 2009, Subterranean Press) Hardcover

=== Anthologies ===
World Fantasy, Stoker and Locus eligible - multiple author original or reprint, single or multiple editors

*''A Fantasy Medley'', ed. Yanni Kuznia (March 2009, Subterranean Press) Hardcover
*''New Ceres Nights'', ed. Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (March 2009, Twelfth Planet Press) Paperback

== Short Fiction ==

=== Short Stories ===
Hugo, Locus, World Fantasy, and Sturgeon eligible. World Fantasy is under 10,000 words

==== January - April ====

* ''Cowgirls in Space'' by [[Deborah Coates]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, April/May 2009
* ''Murder in Laochan'' by [[Aliette de Bodard]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* ''The First Time We Met'' by [[Maria Deira]] -- Strange Horizons [http://www.strangehorizons.com/2009/20090216/first-f.shtml]
*''The Widow's Seven Candles'' by [[Thoraiya Dyer]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* ''The Bird Painter in Time of War'' by [[Carol Emshwiller]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, Feburary 2009
* ''Four Last Things: A Disruption of Boschtown'' by [[Toiya Kristen Finley]] - Farrago's Wainscot [http://www.farragoswainscot.com/2009/10/four_last.html]
* ''Within Your Soul I Sightless See'' by [[Eugie Foster]] -- H.P. Lovecraft’s Magazine of Horror
* ''Sinner, Baker, Fabulist, Priest; Red Mask, Black Mask, Gentleman, Beast'' by [[Eugie Foster]] -- Interzone
* ''Slow Stampede'' by [[Sara Genge]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, March 2009
* ''Candle to the Devil'' by [[Sue Isle]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* ''Paper Dragons'' by [[Sue Isle]] -- Shiny Issue 5
* ''The Sharp Shooter'' by [[Sylvia Kelso]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* ''Jaiden's Weaver'' by [[Mary Robinette Kowal]] in Diamonds in the Sky, ed. Mike Brotherton [http://www.mikebrotherton.com/diamonds/?page_id=88]
* ''Unintended Behavior'' by [[Nancy Kress]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, January 2009
* ''Exegesis'' by [[Nancy Kress]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, April/May 2009
* ''The Unstrung Zither'' by [[Yoon Ha Lee]] -- The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction
* ''Pipsqueak'' by [[Angel Leigh McCoy]] -- Ravens in the Library, ed. Phil Brucato and Sandra Buskirk [http://www.sjtucker.com/ravens.html]
* ''Jump Space'' by [[Mary Anne Mohanraj]] -- Thoughtcrime Experiments [http://thoughtcrime.crummy.com/2009/Jump.html]
* ''From Russia, With Love'' by [[CE Murphy]] -- ''A Fantasy Medley'', ed. Yanni Kuznia (March 2009, Subterranean Press)
* ''Nira and I'' by [[Shweta Narayan]] -- Strange Horizons [http://www.strangehorizons.com/2009/20090316/nira-and-i-f.shtml]
* ''Minya's Astral Angels'' by [[Jennifer Pelland]] -- The Solaris Book of New Science Fiction, Volume Three, ed George Mann
* ''Prosperine When it Sizzles'' by [[Tansy Rayner Roberts]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* ''Not Like Us'' by [[Tansy Rayner Roberts]] -- Shiny Issue 5
* ''Johnny So Long at the Fair'' by [[Lezli Robyn]] in Jim Baen's Universe, February 2009
* ''The Piece of Ice in Miss Windermere's Heart'' by [[Angela Slatter]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* ''Root'' by [[Emily Mah Tippets]] -- Shiny Issue 5
* ''Tontine Mary'' by [[Kaaron Warren]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* ''An Ordinary Day with Jason'' by [[Kate Wilhelm]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, April/May 2009
* ''The Ambassador's Staff'' by Sherry D. Ramsey -- Thoughtcrime Experiments [http://thoughtcrime.crummy.com/2009/Ambassador.html]

==== May - August ====

* ''Diamond Shell'' by [[Deborah Biancotti]] in A Book of Endings, ed Alisa Krasnostein and Ben Payne
* ''Hush'' by [[Deborah Biancotti]] in A Book of Endings, ed Alisa Krasnostein and Ben Payne
* ''Coming Up for Air'' by [[Deborah Biancotti]] in A Book of Endings, ed Alisa Krasnostein and Ben Payne
* ''Problems of Light and Dark'' by [[Deborah Biancotti]] in A Book of Endings, ed Alisa Krasnostein and Ben Payne
* ''Six Suicides'' by [[Deborah Biancotti]] in A Book of Endings, ed Alisa Krasnostein and Ben Payne
* ''This Time, Longing'' by [[Deborah Biancotti]] in A Book of Endings, ed Alisa Krasnostein and Ben Payne
* ''Six'' by [[Leah Bobet]] in Clockwork Phoenix 2, ed. Mike Allen
* ''Different Day'' by [[K. Tempest Bradford]] in Federations, ed. John Joseph Adams
* ''Elan Vital'' by [[K. Tempest Bradford]] -- Sybil's Garage No. 6 [http://www.sensesfive.com/samples/elanvital.php]
* ''Enmity'' by [[K. Tempest Bradford]] -- Electric Velocipede issue 17/18
* ''Once a Goddess'' by [[Marie Brennan]] in Clockwork Phoenix 2, ed. Mike Allen
* ''The Death of Sugar Daddy'' by [[Toiya Kristen Finley]] -- Electric Velocipede issue 17/18
* ''Eating Ritual'' by [[Toiya Kristen Finley]] -- Sybil’s Garage No. 6
* ''The Fish of Al-Kawthar's Fountain'' by [[Joanna Galbraith]] in Clockwork Phoenix 2, ed. Mike Allen
* ''At the Edge of Dying'' by [[Mary Robinette Kowal]] in Clockwork Phoenix 2, ed. Mike Allen
* "The Monsters of Morgan Island" by Sandra McDonald -- Asimov's Science Fiction, June 2009
* "Shoes-To-Run" by Sara Genge -- Asimov's Science Fiction, July 2009
* "Camp Nowhere" by Kit Reed -- Asimov's Science Fiction, July 2009
* "Turbulence" by Kristine Kathryn Rusch -- Asimov's Science Fiction, August 2009
* ''The Consciousness Problem'' by [[Mary Robinette Kowal]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, August 2009
* ''Rosemary, That's For Remembrance'' by [[Barbara Krasnoff]] in Clockwork Phoenix 2, ed. Mike Allen
* ''The Endangered Camp'' by [[Ann Leckie]] in Clockwork Phoenix 2, ed. Mike Allen
* ''Swanwatch'' by [[Yoon Ha Lee]] -- Federations, ed. John Joseph Adams
* ''The Fourth Horseman'' by [[Yoon Ha Lee]] -- Electric Velocipede issue 17/18
* ''The Bones of Giants'' by [[Yoon Ha Lee]] -- F&SF, Aug/Sep
* ''Like They Always Been Free'' by [[Georgina Li]] -- Federations, ed. John Joseph Adams
* ''From the Lost Diary of TreeFrog7'' by [[Nnedi Okorafor]] -- Clarkesworld Magazine [http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/okorafor_05_09]
* ''...That Has Such People in It'' by [[Jennifer Pelland]] -- Apex Magazine [http://www.apexbookcompany.com/apex-online/2009/07/short-fiction-that-has-such-people-in-it/]
* ''Down in the Flood'' by [[Nisi Shawl]] -- Podcastle [http://podcastle.org/2009/05/07/podcastle-miniature-31-down-in-the-flood/]
* ''Running on Two Legs'' by [[Eugie Foster]] -- The Fleas They Carried: Animal Aid Anthology
* ''The Executioner'' by [[Jennifer Brissett]] -- Warrior Wisewoman 2
* ''Beautiful Winter'' by [[Eugie Foster]] -- InterGalactic Medicine Show
* ''Charms'' by [[Shweta Narayan]] -- Strange Horizons [http://www.strangehorizons.com/2009/20090824/charms-f.shtml]
* ''Coquettrice'' by [[Angel Leigh McCoy]] -- Vile Things: Extreme Deviations of Horror, Comet Press, ed. Cheryl Mullenax [http://www.cometpress.us/books/vilethings.html]
* ''Silence and Roses'' by [[Suzanne Palmer]] -- Interzone 223
* ''The Secret History of Mirrors'' by [[Catherynne M. Valente]] in Clockwork Phoenix 2, ed. Mike Allen

==== September - December ====

* ''In Their Garden'' by [[Brenda Cooper]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, September 2009
* ''Away From Here'' by [[Lisa Goldstein]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, September 2009
* ''Non-Zero Probabilities'' by [[N. K. Jemisin]] -- Clarkesworld Magazine September 2009, Issue #36
* ''Deadly Sins'' by [[Nancy Kress]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, October/November 2009
* ''Where the Time Goes'' by [[Heather Lindsley]] -- Asimov's Science Fiction, October/November 2009
* ''Benchwarmer'' by [[Lezli Robyn]] and [[Mike Resnick]] -- 50th Anniversary Twilight Zone Anthology, ed. Carol Serling
* ''The Dawn of Reason'' by [[Lezli Robyn]] -- Origins, ed. Eric Reynolds
* ''Tending the Mori Birds'' by [[Caroline M. Yoachim]] -- Fantasy Magazine, September 24, 2009 [http://www.darkfantasy.org/fantasy/2009/09/tending-the-mori-birds/]

=== Novelettes ===
Hugo eligible; Hugo rules say a novelette is roughly 7,500-17,500 words, which may count as a novella for the World Fantasy and Stoker, or a short story for the World Fantasy or Sturgeon

* "Lion Walk" by Mary Rosenblum -- Asimov's Science Fiction, January 2009
* "The Long, Cold Goodbye" by Holly Phillips-- Asimov's Science Fiction, March 2009
* ''The Widow's Seven Candles'' by [[Thoraiya Dyer]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* ''Murder in Laochan'' by [[Aliette de Bodard]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* ''The Warlock and the Man of the Word'' by [[M. K. Hobson]] -- Postscripts 19, November 2009
* ''The Sharp Shooter'' by [[Sylvia Kelso]] -- ''New Ceres Nights'', ed Alisa Krasnostein and Tehani Wessely (April 2009, Twelfth Planet Press)
* "The Armies of Elfland" by [[Eileen Gunn]] and Michael Swanwick-- Asimov's Science Fiction, April/May 2009
*''The Pain of Glass'' by [[Tanith Lee]] -- Clockwork Phoenix 2, ed. Mike Allen, July 2009
* "Soulmates" by Mike Resnick and Lezli Robyn -- Asimov's Science Fiction, September 2009
*''Siren Beat'' by [[Tansy Rayner Roberts]] - Twelfth Planet Press Double, October 2009
* "Flotsam" by Elissa Malchon -- Asimov's Science Fiction, October/November 2009
*''The Land of Empty Shells'' by [[Caroline M. Yoachim]] - Beneath Ceaseless Skies, Issue #20, July 2009 [http://www.beneath-ceaseless-skies.com/story.php?s=41]

=== Novellas ===
Hugo, Stoker, Locus and World Fantasy eligible; Hugo rules say a novella is roughly 17,500-40,000 words, World Fantasy is 10,000-40,000 words

*"Pelago" by Judith Berman -- Asimov's Science Fiction, Feburary 2009
*"Act One" by Nancy Kress -- Asimov's Science Fiction, March 2009
*"The Spires of Denon" by Kristine Kathryn Rusch -- Asimov's Science Fiction, April/May 2009
*''The Red in the Sky Is Our Blood'' by [[Elizabeth Bear]] -- METAtropolis, August 2009
*"Broken Windchimes" by Kristine Kathryn Rusch-- Asimov's Science Fiction, September 2009
*''Siren Beat'' by [[Tansy Rayner Roberts]] - Twelfth Planet Press Double, October 2009
*''Flight'' by [[Sharon Shinn]] -- Quatrain, October 2009
*''Blood'' by [[Sharon Shinn]] -- Quatrain, October 2009
*''Gold'' by [[Sharon Shinn]] -- Quatrain, October 2009
*''Flame'' by [[Sharon Shinn]] -- Quatrain, October 2009
*"Ars Memoriae" by [[Beth Bernobich]] -- PS Publishing, October 2009

== Non-Fiction ==

=== Related Books ===
Hugo, Stoker (as Non-Fiction) and Locus eligible, non-fiction book relating to the genre

* [[On Joanna Russ]] (Wesleyan) - [[Farah Mendlesohn]]
* The Secret Feminist Cabal (Aqueduct) - [[Helen Merrick]]
* The WisCon Chronicles Volume 3 - Carnival of Feminist SF - [[Liz Henry]]
* [[Women in Science Fiction and Fantasy]] - [[Robin Reid]]

[[category:Works]]
[[category:Writers]]
[[category:Awards]]
[[category:Lists of works]]

Template:Disambig

2010-03-20T18:11:07Z

208.64.187.190: Undo revision 34349 by 208.44.165.194 (Talk)

<div class="notice metadata" id="disambig">
{|style="background:none"
|style="vertical-align:middle;"|[[Image:Disambig gray.svg.png|30px]]
|style="vertical-align:middle;"|''This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the same title. If an [[Special:Whatlinkshere/{{FULLPAGENAME}}|internal link]] led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article.''
|}</div><includeonly>[[Category:Disambiguation]]</includeonly><noinclude>
{{Template:Disambig/doc}}
</noinclude>

Talk:Commenting Rules for the FSF Blog

2010-02-24T04:03:19Z

208.64.187.190: Undo revision 34284 by 79.125.2.118 (Talk)

==Should there be a set of guidelines that apply to all?==

One thing that several people came up with was "should there be a set of guidelines that apply to all?" rather than identifying a set of problems as "male behaviour" and identifying a set of problems as "non-feminist behaviour". Thoughts? [[User:Yonmei|Yonmei]] 06:46, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

* I reiterate my opinion that rules are a dangerous substitute for political action. Rules must be universal and indiscriminately applicable to be considered fair. If they require exceptions, those exceptions must be codified, otherwise their enforcers rightfully face charges of hypocrisy. Political action must adapt to the circumstances. For instance, identical treatment of unequals may perpetuate inequality, because the baseline's situation relative to each party may differ. (Taxing the rich and the poor by the same amount still leaves the rich much more money than the poor.) Yet preferential treatment, or favouritism, can either further unbalance the power relationship between people, or rectify it. ''Who'' benefits, in order to achieve one outcome or the other, is a question of politics. Anti-feminists claim that women who favour women are selfish, and that this is ''wrong''. (Unfeminine. Lesbians. Man-haters. Separatists. And so forth.) This tactic discourages and vilifies women's liberation, and it is one of the most important forms of anti-feminist propaganda, because women favouring women jeopardises the fundation of patriarchy, which men's unrecompensed and unreciprocated access to women's time, labour and resources. On a feminist blog, what would be "fair" because it is equally applied to all can prove politically disastrous. (If you establish a rule to ban any poster for flaming someone else, you might keep "polite" anti-feminists and drive away justly infuriated feminists.) Civility is a product of political circumstances. Any change in politics will therefore entail a change in the nature of civility, and the rules of good behaviour have to be rewritten in consequence. The differences in case-by-case politics would make this unworkable, even for a tool as suited to frequent revisions as a Wiki entry. --[[User:Ide Cyan|Ide Cyan]] 07:44, 12 September 2006 (PDT) ''(NB: I started writing this before you outlined the Talk page.)''

: The original problem identified by me, Debbie, Pam, and others is that identifying the category "male", "feminist", "nonfeminist", etc., is difficult and won't necessarily reach the problem that we're trying to reach. For instance, guidelines for men/women references a binary that many feminist/queer activists are actively trying to question. Guidelines for "feminists" are appealing to those of us who adopt the term "feminist" to describe our views, but some people with similar views don't adopt the term "feminist" for various reasons; see, e.g., Alice Walker and "womanist". The "I'm not a feminist but..." information is great for trying to recapture and reclaim the term feminist, but I personally do not want people to segregate themselves based on a label that has come, unfortunately, to be problematic for people of color, young people, and other people for various historical and political reasons.

: Hence, the suggestion that we address behaviors rather than addressing identity labels. --[[User:Lquilter|LQ]] 08:31, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

::: And I'm not suggesting we make decisions based ''only'' on the identity of commenters. I'm saying that their behaviour must be evaluated in light of their political status, otherwise the inter-poster dynamics will be too abstracted for arbitration purposes. --[[User:Ide Cyan|Ide Cyan]] 09:03, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

:: And furthermore, the elaboration of _rules_ tailored for various political categories was '''not''' ''my'' idea, so don't blame me for its failings, ''which I keep pointing out''. --[[User:Ide Cyan|Ide Cyan]] 10:11, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

::: I see that my positioning made it look like that comment related specifically or just to Ide's comment; I saw it more as a response to Yonmei's original comment. I wasn't trying to imply anything about "rules" being Ide's idea. I imagine it was just convenient shorthand phrasing that was put in without much thought as to distinctions between "rules", "guidelines", etc. It was productive because it has given us something to react to. --[[User:Lquilter|LQ]] 14:58, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

: As for Ide's comment, I don't disagree; but I would say, let us see where we get. Properly constructed "guidelines" should '''permit their readers to''' distinguish between feminist or political rage, or intemperate speech that furthers a useful political point; and hate speech, speech aimed at derailing conversations (trolls), speech unintentionally derailing conversations thru cluelessness, etc. --[[User:Lquilter|LQ]] 08:31, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

:: (Not to get pedantic about this from layperson to lawyer, but...) Properly constructed guidelines can explain what types of behaviour fall under our scrutiny, but distinguishing the nature of a given speech is something people do. --[[User:Ide Cyan|Ide Cyan]] 10:20, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

::: Right on. One amendment (in bold) should make this more accurate ... --[[User:Lquilter|LQ]] 14:56, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

* Really great idea to move the discussion here rather than email.

I liked what Kameron said: "Trolls get deleted; asshats who are just derailing conversations can be reeled in. If they refuse, shut them down. I suppose I'd just assumed this was what everybody was doing in the first place. And again: if you don't
want to engage with somebody, don't." It can't actually be assumed, which is why we're talking about it.

My preference is that trolls don't get deleted; they get left up , and disemvoweled. That way we all know who the trolls are, it serves as a warning, it doesn't erase the publicness of the fact that we got attacked, and it can function as public shaming.

The fuzzy area is "asshats who are just derailing". I tend to act on the side of engaging with them for a bit, before I put in that "just" in front of derailing. I understand there are problems with that. I'm in the middle of a nasty situtaion myself where a hostile divisive guy is targeting me and one of my communities; in fact I have been warned that the guy has made nice to my friends and tried to appear reasonable to them, in order to isolate me. So, if that happens here, we need to be on the alert for it. So that the moderates, or engage-the enemy-more-closely-ites, remember to watch our backs.

I like the idea of emphasizing "feminisms" and the positive slant on things. I am agreeing with Debbie, Pam, Kameron, basically. I think we have Ide and yonmei on the side of heavy moderation and banning. And pretty much the rest of us trying to figure out how to say that if anyone becomes a huge problem, we will deal with it when it comes, and till then we have "guidelines". One problem with that is that we all have different threshholds of "huge problem". For example Debbie's teachable moment person making Ide exasperated. Or -- worse -- putting another of us in the position of being The Unreasonable One. (See the "rewards for placating men" section of Tia's post on unfoggged.) I appreciate Ide's alertness to derailing, etc. and am learning a lot from it. a LOT. (Were we an actual guerrilla movement engaged in revolutionary politics or violence, instead of a blog, I would probably be right behind her. Ide, you are suited to be a feminist Che Guevara.) But I think we can and will outweigh any crap from commenters, by the sheer force of our engagement with ideas and with each other. For me the crucial line in the sand not to cross is not to let men be original posters here. --[[User:Liz Henry|Liz Henry]] 08:56, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

:: Does ''nobody'' remember the Pankhursts?! Also: I created a [[FSF Blog Moderation Log]]. By all means, let's keep a public record of offenders and our handling of them. --[[User:Ide Cyan|Ide Cyan]] 10:11, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

==Disruptive behaviour==

People asking the same-old same-old questions, disrupting an interesting thread by challenging a basic point of feminism: do we want to point them at the guidelines and tell them "go read" or allow them to disrupt the thread further by responding to their points at length? [[User:Yonmei|Yonmei]] 06:46, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

: Yes, any of us should be able to point someone to those guidelines (rules, readings, whatever) when inspired to do so. That could be out of a spirit of frustration ("you're wasting my time; go read this"), encouragement ("you've got some good ideas or a good point but you're missing some critical analyses; go read this"), or any other reason or combination of reasons. It's not a "do we want" because we are all individuals, ultimately, and if we're engaging in conversations as individuals, we will have our own levels, thresholds, and reasons for referring people to the guidelines. -- [[User:Lquilter|LQ]] 08:19, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

==Tone, Format, Structure==

Good writing should engage the reader. Ideally, I would think that the "guidelines" would be friendly, humorous, & brief, with links to more pages that include examples, etc. In practice, it might work this way: A conversation on a blog posting is progressing at a fairly high level of analysis with a lot of interesting feminist disagreement. A newbie comes along, and, in a non-hostile but clueless fashion, asks some fairly silly question. One of the bloggers who has been participating in the discussion shakes her head, rolls her eyes, and posts a response that says, "The current discussion is way beyond the issue you raise here. You should start by reading the Guidelines; see particularly #5, and the links that explain in detail." The guidelines are a fairly short rules-of-the-road kind of document that list w/ brief description common problems to avoid, common fallacies, basic behavioral & communication guidelines; whatever. Each includes links to a page with a lot more information. These pages can even have their own discussion threads which could remain open. -- [[User:Lquilter|LQ]] 08:37, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

Fuck it, I guess I'm not going to get *any* work done today. What about a structure like:

# Critical thinking / reading / Communications 101
# Feminism 101
# Check Your Privilege
# Common Issues in Feminist SF Criticism: Educate yourself
# No hate speech (this can be outright negative language)

* Most of these can be styled with positive language, not negative language, although I think that the "no hate speech" is fine to do in outright negative language; it *is* a prohibition, a rule.
* Each of these could be a short blurb or paragraph, with sublists of issues where appropriate, and links, always, to pages that have more detailed, discursive guidelines and discussions (if appropriate).

-- [[User:Lquilter|LQ]] 09:00, 12 September 2006 (PDT)

How about a section called "We've heard that one before." This is where we could list things like "I'm not a feminist, I'm a humanist," and "Sexism hurts men, too," with a discussion of what is wrong (or point-missing) about these statements.

-- [[User:Janet Lafler|JL]]

I have added a set of general "communications 101" guidelines (not specifically feminist) [[http://wiki.feministsf.net/index.php?title=Communication_Guidelines#Alternate_.5Bshorter.2C_more_general.5D_Draft|here]]. For easy readability, I think it's important that we keep these short and general.

-- [[User:Janet Lafler|JL]]

==Additional resources==

* Guidelines for Participation (FSF Blog) draft - http://blogs.feministsf.net/?page_id=19
* Call for Participants (FSF Blog) http://blogs.feministsf.net/?page_id=18
* Communications 101: How to Argue Effectively & Respectfully http://blogs.feministsf.net/?page_id=33
* Communication Guidelines (FSF wiki) http://wiki.feministsf.net/index.php?title=Communication_Guidelines
* Ginmar on invalidating women by telling them they're too angry, too crazy http://ginmar.livejournal.com/873536.html?nc=6
* Unfogged : for men on how to talk about/to feminists http://www.unfogged.com/archives/week_2006_09_03.html#005405
* The WisCon moderators' rules might be of use.
* Something to be gleaned from [http://roar-of-comics.blogspot.com/2006/06/flame-on.html this analysis] of weird & inappropriate communications on the part of commenter?
* How Not To Be Insane When Accused of Racism: A Guide for White People http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/12/02/how-not-to-be-insane-when-accused-of-racism/
* How to Repress Discussions of Racism http://coffeeandink.livejournal.com/607897.html
* 12 Helpful Suggestions for Men Regarding Conduct in Feminist Spaces http://community.livejournal.com/feminist/1362470.html
* Male Privilege Checklist http://colours.mahost.org/org/maleprivilege.html
* Yes, You Are (a feminist) essay http://www.tomatonation.com/youare.shtml