Commenting Rules for the FSF Blog - Revision history

Lquilter at 19:33, 12 September 2006

2006-09-12T19:33:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:33, 12 September 2006
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	This is a first draft of the posting rules for [http://blogs.feministsf.net/ FeministSF - The Blog!]		This is a first draft of the posting rules for [http://blogs.feministsf.net/ FeministSF - The Blog!]

	COMMENT GUIDELINES FOR THE FEMINIST SF BLOG		==COMMENT GUIDELINES FOR THE FEMINIST SF BLOG==

	(See below for original)		(See below for original)
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	16. With these guidelines in mind, comment away! We look forward to hearing your thoughts and opinions.		16. With these guidelines in mind, comment away! We look forward to hearing your thoughts and opinions.

	~~_____________________________________________________________~~		==Posting rules for non-feminists (YONMEI VERSION)==

	==Posting rules for non-feminists== ~~- YONMEI VERSION~~

	This is a feminist sf blog. The people who have posting privileges here are all feminist SF fans. We are here to discuss feminism/sf/feminist sf/sf and feminism. We are not here to educate you about feminism. If, as a result of reading this blog, you ''are'' educated about feminism, we're happy for you: but it's not our primary purpose in life to do so.		This is a feminist sf blog. The people who have posting privileges here are all feminist SF fans. We are here to discuss feminism/sf/feminist sf/sf and feminism. We are not here to educate you about feminism. If, as a result of reading this blog, you ''are'' educated about feminism, we're happy for you: but it's not our primary purpose in life to do so.

Lquilter: clarifying "if you wish to engage in hate speech" to "if you engage in hate speech"

2006-09-12T19:31:06Z

clarifying "if you wish to engage in hate speech" to "if you engage in hate speech"

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:31, 12 September 2006
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	6. In order to provide a productive space for discussion, the use of abusive, sexist, or racist language will not be tolerated. If you ~~wish to~~ engage in hate speech on this blog, your posts may be deleted, and/or you may be banned from our forum.		6. In order to provide a productive space for discussion, the use of abusive, sexist, or racist language will not be tolerated. If you engage in hate speech on this blog, your posts may be deleted, and/or you may be banned from our forum.

Khurley at 19:02, 12 September 2006

2006-09-12T19:02:06Z

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	1. Feminism, on a very basic level, is the idea that women are people ~~who~~ deserve equal treatment~~: in~~ the workplace, within the family ~~and before the law~~. If you believe women are human beings ~~who~~ deserve ~~equal treatment~~, you’re probably a feminist.		1. Feminism, on a very basic level, is the idea that women are people and deserve equal treatment before the law, at the workplace, and within the family. If you believe women are human beings and deserve to be treated as such, you’re probably a feminist.


	2. As this is a feminist SF blog, there are many topics that we will discuss related to SF and feminism. Some of these ~~topics may~~ not ~~be of the sort you believe is~~ the most important to the advancement of ~~feminist thought~~. They are, however, topics that the posters deemed relevant for discussion. If these topics are not of interest to you, please feel free not to engage with them.		2. As this is a feminist SF blog, there are many topics that we will discuss related to SF and feminism. Some of you may think that these are not the topics most important to the advancement of feminism. They are, however, topics that the posters deemed relevant for discussion. If these topics are not of interest to you, please feel free not to engage with them.


	3. In some cases, you may find yourself in discussions with people who have a ~~wider access to~~ feminist ~~text~~ and theories than you have. At the end of this post, you'll find a short reading list of texts you may be interested in familiarizing yourself with before engaging with these posters.		3. In some cases, you may find yourself in discussions with people who have a broader knowledge of feminist texts and theories than you have, perhaps, had access to. At the end of this post, you'll find a short reading list of texts you may be interested in familiarizing yourself with before engaging with these posters.


	4. Sadly, we live in a patriarchal society. Patriarchy is the term used to define the social condition in which male members of a society predominate in positions of power – political, social, economic. When we speak here about “the patriarchy” please understand that we are not “blaming” all men or all women for this condition. We are speaking of it as a condition that simply “is,” a condition that many of us are trying very ~~hard~~ to ~~make people aware of in the hopes that it can be altered to a more egalitarian social structure~~. ~~As it is, no~~ society can be truly equal that values the thoughts, opinions, and deeds of one gender above the other.		4. Sadly, we live in a patriarchal society. Patriarchy is the term used to define the social condition in which male members of a society predominate in positions of power – political, social, economic. When we speak here about “the patriarchy” please understand that we are not “blaming” all men or all women for this condition. We are speaking of it as a condition that simply “is,” a condition that many of us are trying very to alter. No society can be truly equal that values the thoughts, opinions, and deeds of one gender above the other.


	5. Feminism, being a loose collection of ~~a set~~ of beliefs, is not a monolith. There is plenty of room for disagreement between and among feminists about ~~just~~ what feminism is and how ~~these thoughts and ideas should be~~ disseminated. This means that you may well see a great many of us disagreeing with one another. This is encouraged. Feminism is not a Hive Mind.		5. Feminism, being a loose collection of many theories and sets of beliefs, is not a monolith. There is plenty of room for disagreement between and among feminists about what feminism is, what it means to be a feminist, and how knowledge of feminism is best disseminated. This means that you may well see a great many of us disagreeing with one another. This is encouraged. Feminism is not a Hive Mind.


	6. In order to provide a productive space for discussion abusive, sexist, racist language will not be tolerated. If you wish to engage in hate speech on this blog, your posts may be deleted, and/or you may be banned from our forum.		6. In order to provide a productive space for discussion, the use of abusive, sexist, or racist language will not be tolerated. If you wish to engage in hate speech on this blog, your posts may be deleted, and/or you may be banned from our forum.


	7. If you are not familiar with basic feminist theory, you may encounter some feminists in this forum who are interested in recommending literature~~, arguing basic tenets of feminism with~~ you, and~~, in general,~~ educating you about feminist values. However, it is not the primary responsibility of any commenter or poster on this ~~board~~ to educate you about feminist principles, and ~~we will engage~~ with you ~~– or not – if we so choose~~.		7. If you are not familiar with basic feminist theory, you may encounter some feminists in this forum who are interested in recommending literature to you and/or educating you about feminist values. However, it is not the primary responsibility of any commenter or poster on this blog to educate you about feminist principles, and each individual has the right to choose whether or not they're interested in engaging with you.

Khurley at 18:52, 12 September 2006

2006-09-12T18:52:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:52, 12 September 2006
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	This is a first draft of the posting rules for [http://blogs.feministsf.net/ FeministSF - The Blog!]		This is a first draft of the posting rules for [http://blogs.feministsf.net/ FeministSF - The Blog!]

	~~POSTING~~ GUIDELINES FOR THE FEMINIST SF BLOG		COMMENT GUIDELINES FOR THE FEMINIST SF BLOG

	(See below for original)		(See below for original)

Lquilter at 16:04, 12 September 2006

2006-09-12T16:04:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:04, 12 September 2006
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	11. Do not try to tell '''us''' "what women want".		11. Do not try to tell '''us''' "what women want".

			[[Category:FSF Bloggers Working Group]]

Ide Cyan: Posting rules for FeministSF blog moved to Commenting Rules for the FSF Blog: The blog's comments, not the posts themselves, are the subject of this discussion about moderation.

2006-09-12T14:48:29Z

Posting rules for FeministSF blog moved to Commenting Rules for the FSF Blog: The blog's comments, not the posts themselves, are the subject of this discussion about moderation.

← Older revision	Revision as of 07:48, 12 September 2006
(No difference)

Khurley: /* Posting rules for non-feminists */

2006-09-12T14:46:27Z

Posting rules for non-feminists

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 This is a first draft of the posting rules for [http://blogs.feministsf.net/ FeministSF - The Blog!]
-==Posting rules for non-feminists==
+POSTING GUIDELINES FOR THE FEMINIST SF BLOG
 This is a feminist sf blog. The people who have posting privileges here are all feminist SF fans. We are here to discuss feminism/sf/feminist sf/sf and feminism. We are not here to educate you about feminism. If, as a result of reading this blog, you ''are'' educated about feminism, we're happy for you: but it's not our primary purpose in life to do so.
@@ Line 34: / Line 94: @@
 . Related to the latter: it is a standard patriarchal trope that men's bodies just are, and women's bodies are overtly sexual. That's why Frank Miller draws drooling pictures of Wonder Woman's butt for front covers, but not [http://odditycollector.livejournal.com/97166.html Superman's crotch or Batman's butt]. This is a given value for the patriarchy: it is not just something "natural" or "how women are".
 . Do not try to tell '''us''' "what feminists believe".
 ==Posting rules for men==

Lquilter: Protected "Posting rules for FeministSF blog" [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed]

2006-09-12T00:21:47Z

Protected "Posting rules for FeministSF blog" [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed]

← Older revision	Revision as of 17:21, 11 September 2006
(No difference)

Yonmei at 20:18, 11 September 2006

2006-09-11T20:18:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:18, 11 September 2006
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	:* Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings. Cheris Kramerae		:* Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings. Cheris Kramerae

	8. There's a moment in [[CJ Cherryh]]'s ''Cuckoo's Egg'' where the adult trainer (who comes from a species with no handedness) says to his human student, "You feinted left, went right," and the student says defensively "I thought this time I'd surprise you!" and his teacher retorts, "Not when you do it every time!" Some tropes in fiction - women being raped - girl children being sexually abused - women submitting themselves to men, women finding joy and satisfaction in becoming a good wife and mother and giving up independence - are like that: they aren't "surprising", or "interesting", or "revolutionary", and it makes no difference if the incident is presented positively or negatively: they're just another patriarchal trope in fiction.		8. There's a moment in [[C.J. Cherryh]]'s ''Cuckoo's Egg'' where the adult trainer (who comes from a species with no handedness) says to his human student, "You feinted left, went right," and the student says defensively "I thought this time I'd surprise you!" and his teacher retorts, "Not when you do it every time!" Some tropes in fiction - women being raped - girl children being sexually abused - women submitting themselves to men, women finding joy and satisfaction in becoming a good wife and mother and giving up independence - are like that: they aren't "surprising", or "interesting", or "revolutionary", and it makes no difference if the incident is presented positively or negatively: they're just another patriarchal trope in fiction.

	9. Related to the latter: it is a standard patriarchal trope that men's bodies just are, and women's bodies are overtly sexual. That's why Frank Miller draws drooling pictures of Wonder Woman's butt for front covers, but not [http://odditycollector.livejournal.com/97166.html Superman's crotch or Batman's butt]. This is a given value for the patriarchy: it is not just something "natural" or "how women are".		9. Related to the latter: it is a standard patriarchal trope that men's bodies just are, and women's bodies are overtly sexual. That's why Frank Miller draws drooling pictures of Wonder Woman's butt for front covers, but not [http://odditycollector.livejournal.com/97166.html Superman's crotch or Batman's butt]. This is a given value for the patriarchy: it is not just something "natural" or "how women are".

Yonmei at 20:14, 11 September 2006

2006-09-11T20:14:20Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:14, 11 September 2006
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	You are most likely to have been directed here because you asked a question or made a comment indicating that you are a non-feminist in need of reading these guidelines in order to be allowed to continue to participate on this blog. If you decide you'd rather not participate, the door is that way, and you can be on the other side of it.		You are most likely to have been directed here because you asked a question or made a comment indicating that you are a non-feminist in need of reading these guidelines in order to be allowed to continue to participate on this blog. If you decide you'd rather not participate, the door is that way, and you can be on the other side of it.

	1. You may in fact be a feminist, even if you prefer not to identify as one. If you find yourself formulating statements on the lines of "I'm not a feminist, but - " you should go read the essay ~~''Yes, you are''<ref>~~http://www.tomatonation.com/youare.shtml~~</ref>~~. And then you should think about why endorsing feminist values is okay, but it feels scary or wrong to identify as a feminist.		1. You may in fact be a feminist, even if you prefer not to identify as one. If you find yourself formulating statements on the lines of "I'm not a feminist, but - " you should go read the essay [http://www.tomatonation.com/youare.shtml Yes, you are]. And then you should think about why endorsing feminist values is okay, but it feels scary or wrong to identify as a feminist.

	2. Don't come back to us and say "Feminism is putting women first: I am a humanist, I put human beings first". Women are human beings: feminists put human beings first. Do not, also, come back to us and say "How can you care about X" where X is a feminist value, "when thisshit is happening?" It is not impossible that some of the feminists you are talking to are also passionately involved in actually ''doing'' something about thisshit: activists tend to care passionately about a ''lot'' of things, and you will look like a fool. But also, this is a feminist sf blog. Do not presume that because people here are not talking, here, about thisshit, and won't let you talk, here, about thisshit, that it's something they don't care about: it just means that we won't let you morph a feminist sf blog into a generalist all-issues blog.		2. Don't come back to us and say "Feminism is putting women first: I am a humanist, I put human beings first". Women are human beings: feminists put human beings first. Do not, also, come back to us and say "How can you care about X" where X is a feminist value, "when thisshit is happening?" It is not impossible that some of the feminists you are talking to are also passionately involved in actually ''doing'' something about thisshit: activists tend to care passionately about a ''lot'' of things, and you will look like a fool. But also, this is a feminist sf blog. Do not presume that because people here are not talking, here, about thisshit, and won't let you talk, here, about thisshit, that it's something they don't care about: it just means that we won't let you morph a feminist sf blog into a generalist all-issues blog.
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	:* Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings. Cheris Kramerae		:* Feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings. Cheris Kramerae

	8. There's a moment in [[~~C. J.~~ Cherryh]]'s ''Cuckoo's Egg'' where the adult trainer (who comes from a species with no handedness) says to his human student, "You feinted left, went right," and the student says defensively "I thought this time I'd surprise you!" and his teacher retorts, "Not when you do it every time!" Some tropes in fiction - women being raped - girl children being sexually abused - women submitting themselves to men, women finding joy and satisfaction in becoming a good wife and mother and giving up independence - are like that: they aren't "surprising", or "interesting", or "revolutionary", and it makes no difference if the incident is presented positively or negatively: they're just another patriarchal trope in fiction.		8. There's a moment in [[CJ Cherryh]]'s ''Cuckoo's Egg'' where the adult trainer (who comes from a species with no handedness) says to his human student, "You feinted left, went right," and the student says defensively "I thought this time I'd surprise you!" and his teacher retorts, "Not when you do it every time!" Some tropes in fiction - women being raped - girl children being sexually abused - women submitting themselves to men, women finding joy and satisfaction in becoming a good wife and mother and giving up independence - are like that: they aren't "surprising", or "interesting", or "revolutionary", and it makes no difference if the incident is presented positively or negatively: they're just another patriarchal trope in fiction.

	9. Related to the latter: it is a standard patriarchal trope that men's bodies just are, and women's bodies are overtly sexual. That's why Frank Miller draws drooling pictures of Wonder Woman's butt for front covers, but not ~~Superman's crotch or Batman's butt<ref>~~http://odditycollector.livejournal.com/97166.html~~</ref>~~. This is a given value for the patriarchy: it is not just something "natural" or "how women are".		9. Related to the latter: it is a standard patriarchal trope that men's bodies just are, and women's bodies are overtly sexual. That's why Frank Miller draws drooling pictures of Wonder Woman's butt for front covers, but not [http://odditycollector.livejournal.com/97166.html Superman's crotch or Batman's butt]. This is a given value for the patriarchy: it is not just something "natural" or "how women are".

	10. Do not try to tell '''us''' "what feminists believe".		10. Do not try to tell '''us''' "what feminists believe".



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	You are most likely to have been directed here because you asked a question or made a comment indicating that you are a man in need of reading these guidelines in order to be allowed to continue to participate on this blog. If you decide you'd rather not participate, the door is that way, and you can be on the other side of it.		You are most likely to have been directed here because you asked a question or made a comment indicating that you are a man in need of reading these guidelines in order to be allowed to continue to participate on this blog. If you decide you'd rather not participate, the door is that way, and you can be on the other side of it.

	1. Because you are a man, you have male privilege in this society. You are most likely unaware of how male privilege has eased your way, and in an environment where you will not be allowed to exercise male privilege, such as this blog, you will probably find yourself thinking "That's not fair!" and "Why am I being treated like that?" because that's how privileged people tend to react when privileges are removed that they are so accustomed to, they think of them as rights. Go read ~~The Male Privilege Checklist<ref>~~http://colours.mahost.org/org/maleprivilege.html~~</ref>~~. We are not interested in arguing with you about whether or not you have male privilege, or how that concept works in real life: we just want you to understand that here, on this blog, you are not permitted the status your male privilege gives you in the wider world.		1. Because you are a man, you have male privilege in this society. You are most likely unaware of how male privilege has eased your way, and in an environment where you will not be allowed to exercise male privilege, such as this blog, you will probably find yourself thinking "That's not fair!" and "Why am I being treated like that?" because that's how privileged people tend to react when privileges are removed that they are so accustomed to, they think of them as rights. Go read [http://colours.mahost.org/org/maleprivilege.html The Male Privilege Checklist]. We are not interested in arguing with you about whether or not you have male privilege, or how that concept works in real life: we just want you to understand that here, on this blog, you are not permitted the status your male privilege gives you in the wider world.

	2. In general, don't try to turn a conversation about how women experience the world into a conversation about how you, a man, experience the world. If you have nothing to contribute to any particular discussion because its focus is entirely on women's experience, read without commenting. In particular, do not attempt to derail discussions about rape with comments like "But men get raped too!", or to derail any similar discussion with equivalent attempts to turn the discussion from violence by men against women to violence where men are the victims.		2. In general, don't try to turn a conversation about how women experience the world into a conversation about how you, a man, experience the world. If you have nothing to contribute to any particular discussion because its focus is entirely on women's experience, read without commenting. In particular, do not attempt to derail discussions about rape with comments like "But men get raped too!", or to derail any similar discussion with equivalent attempts to turn the discussion from violence by men against women to violence where men are the victims.