Talk:Fan fiction - Revision history

Lquilter: Reverted edits by 89.107.104.120 (Talk) to last revision by Ide Cyan

2010-02-28T17:39:45Z

Reverted edits by 89.107.104.120 (Talk) to last revision by Ide Cyan

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:39, 28 February 2010
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	::I don't own the page, but I wrote that initial article, and while I posted it here '''knowing''' it'll be edited, I have a right to be pissed off if someone fucks it up. See the [[Mary Sue]] entry where someone changed the meaning of a sentence to its opposite without having a clue what he was doing. g --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)		::I don't own the page, but I wrote that initial article, and while I posted it here '''knowing''' it'll be edited, I have a right to be pissed off if someone fucks it up. See the [[Mary Sue]] entry where someone changed the meaning of a sentence to its opposite without having a clue what he was doing. g --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)

	~~TeYhH0~~ <a ~~href=~~"~~http~~:~~//gbxvxrzzjwdu~~.~~com~~/"~~>gbxvxrzzjwdu<~~/a>, [~~url=http~~:~~//okjzbmuzxujc.com/~~]~~okjzbmuzxujc[/url~~], [~~link=http~~:~~//smivdtrrzrrk.com/~~]~~smivdtrrzrrk[/link~~], ~~http~~:~~//fjmzfgzndmcu~~.~~com/~~		=="legitimate" and copyright==
			I write to raise some issues with the discussion of copyright. First, the use of the term "legitimate" for licensed fanfic or fanfic based on public domain works suggests that other fanfic is "''il''legitimate", an assertion that is not based in law. Relatedly, the phrase "the lawful attacks of copyright owners" suggests that copyright holders (I prefer "holders" to "owners" because it makes clear that copyright is not a traditional "property" right) are within their rights to "attack" fanfic; that is not necessarily and always the case.

			I would just edit the article, but for two things. (1) I want to make sure I understand what the original author is getting at, and clarify my issues with the language, and have discussion first ... and (2) there seems to be an element of possessiveness in the above comment, so I wanted to work that out first, too. --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:29, 18 February 2007 (PST)

			: Oh, I'm interested in the official legal perspective you can offer as a professional, but legitimacy isn't limited to ''written'' law alone, which itself changes depending on your country, your state, your town, etc. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)

			:: Yes, legitimacy has many different meanings, and legal status is but one type of legitimacy. But in the context of a discussion about fanfic which is specifically talking about copyright, it seems to imply "legal legitimacy", i.e., "licensed" or "authorized" or "not unlawful", etc. So, in that kind of a discussion, I would be wary of the term legitimacy.
			::* The fact that "legal" legitimacy varies according to sovereignty / jurisdiction and according to social practice is, in fact, one reason why it's confusing to use the term "legitimacy" in a generic legal context (without specifying the body of law / practice that legitimates).
			::* Also, I should say that as a political matter, beyond any issues of legal nuance and clarity, I resist the conflation of the normative notions of "legitimacy" (good, useful, socially constructive or beneficial, etc.) with the legal definitions of "permissible," "authorized," "licensed," and "legal".
			:: --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 14:53, 19 February 2007 (PST)

			::: But this isn't a generic legal context. It's a generic feminist context. Do feel free to disambiguate copyright law and legitimacy, though. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 15:07, 19 February 2007 (PST)

			:::: I meant the context of the article, which has lots of "generic" (i.e., not specific to jurisdiction or sovereignty) legal issues addressed. ... I will work on the legal stuff at some point soon. --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 15:26, 19 February 2007 (PST)

89.107.104.120: /* "legitimate" and copyright */

2010-02-28T15:06:23Z

"legitimate" and copyright

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:06, 28 February 2010
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	::I don't own the page, but I wrote that initial article, and while I posted it here '''knowing''' it'll be edited, I have a right to be pissed off if someone fucks it up. See the [[Mary Sue]] entry where someone changed the meaning of a sentence to its opposite without having a clue what he was doing. g --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)		::I don't own the page, but I wrote that initial article, and while I posted it here '''knowing''' it'll be edited, I have a right to be pissed off if someone fucks it up. See the [[Mary Sue]] entry where someone changed the meaning of a sentence to its opposite without having a clue what he was doing. g --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)

	=="~~legitimate" and copyright==~~		TeYhH0 <a href="http://gbxvxrzzjwdu.com/">gbxvxrzzjwdu</a>, [url=http://okjzbmuzxujc.com/]okjzbmuzxujc[/url], [link=http://smivdtrrzrrk.com/]smivdtrrzrrk[/link], http://fjmzfgzndmcu.com/
	~~I write to raise some issues with the discussion of copyright~~. ~~First, the use of the term~~ "legitimate" for licensed fanfic or fanfic based on public domain works suggests that other fanfic is "''il''legitimate", an assertion that is not based in law. Relatedly, the phrase "the lawful attacks of copyright owners" suggests that copyright holders (I prefer "holders" to "owners" because it makes clear that copyright is not a ~~traditional "property" right) are within their rights to "attack" fanfic; that is not necessarily and always the case.~~

	~~I would just edit the article~~, but for two things. (1) I want to make sure I understand what the original author is getting at, and clarify my issues with the language, and have discussion first ... and (2) there seems to be an element of possessiveness in the above comment, so I wanted to work that out first, too. --[~~[User~~:~~Lquilter\|LQ~~]] ~~18:29, 18 February 2007 (PST)~~

	: Oh, I'm interested in the official legal perspective you can offer as a professional, but legitimacy isn't limited to ''written'' law alone, which itself changes depending on your country, your state, your town, ~~etc. --~~[~~[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)~~

	:: Yes, legitimacy has many different meanings, and legal status is but one type of legitimacy. But in the context of a discussion about fanfic which is specifically talking about copyright, it seems to imply "legal legitimacy", i.e., "licensed" or "authorized" or "not unlawful", etc. So, in that kind of a discussion, I would be wary of the term legitimacy.
	:~~:* The fact that "legal" legitimacy varies according to sovereignty~~ / ~~jurisdiction and according to social practice is, in fact, one reason why it's confusing to use the term "legitimacy" in a generic legal context (without specifying the body of law~~ / ~~practice that legitimates)~~.
	::* Also, I should say that as a political matter, beyond any issues of legal nuance and clarity, I resist the conflation of the normative notions of "legitimacy" (good, useful, socially constructive or beneficial, etc.) with the legal definitions of "permissible," "authorized," "licensed," and "legal".
	~~:: --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]~~] ~~14:53, 19 February 2007 (PST)~~

	~~::: But this isn't a generic legal context. It's a generic feminist context. Do feel free to disambiguate copyright law and legitimacy, though. --~~[~~[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan~~]~~] 15:07~~, ~~19 February 2007 (PST)~~

	:~~::: I meant the context of the article, which has lots of "generic" (i~~.~~e., not specific to jurisdiction or sovereignty) legal issues addressed. ... I will work on the legal stuff at some point soon. --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 15:26, 19 February 2007 (PST)~~

Ide Cyan: Undo revision 31287 by 72.51.31.19 (Talk) vandalism

2008-12-18T22:30:53Z

Undo revision 31287 by 72.51.31.19 (Talk) vandalism

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:30, 18 December 2008
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	~~sitrelro~~
	...and by using the "stub" template, I '''DON'T''' MEAN that you should DENATURE MY ANALYSIS. Just that a lot more information about fanfiction can be added to this entry.		...and by using the "stub" template, I '''DON'T''' MEAN that you should DENATURE MY ANALYSIS. Just that a lot more information about fanfiction can be added to this entry.
	--[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 01:05, 10 December 2006 (PST)		--[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 01:05, 10 December 2006 (PST)

72.51.31.19: varbocro

2008-12-18T14:54:39Z

varbocro

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:54, 18 December 2008
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			sitrelro
	...and by using the "stub" template, I '''DON'T''' MEAN that you should DENATURE MY ANALYSIS. Just that a lot more information about fanfiction can be added to this entry.		...and by using the "stub" template, I '''DON'T''' MEAN that you should DENATURE MY ANALYSIS. Just that a lot more information about fanfiction can be added to this entry.
	--[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 01:05, 10 December 2006 (PST)		--[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 01:05, 10 December 2006 (PST)

Lquilter: /* "legitimate" and copyright */ okay

2007-02-19T23:26:37Z

"legitimate" and copyright: okay

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:26, 19 February 2007
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	::: But this isn't a generic legal context. It's a generic feminist context. Do feel free to disambiguate copyright law and legitimacy, though. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 15:07, 19 February 2007 (PST)		::: But this isn't a generic legal context. It's a generic feminist context. Do feel free to disambiguate copyright law and legitimacy, though. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 15:07, 19 February 2007 (PST)

			:::: I meant the context of the article, which has lots of "generic" (i.e., not specific to jurisdiction or sovereignty) legal issues addressed. ... I will work on the legal stuff at some point soon. --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 15:26, 19 February 2007 (PST)

Ide Cyan: /* "legitimate" and copyright */

2007-02-19T23:07:41Z

"legitimate" and copyright

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:07, 19 February 2007
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	::* Also, I should say that as a political matter, beyond any issues of legal nuance and clarity, I resist the conflation of the normative notions of "legitimacy" (good, useful, socially constructive or beneficial, etc.) with the legal definitions of "permissible," "authorized," "licensed," and "legal".		::* Also, I should say that as a political matter, beyond any issues of legal nuance and clarity, I resist the conflation of the normative notions of "legitimacy" (good, useful, socially constructive or beneficial, etc.) with the legal definitions of "permissible," "authorized," "licensed," and "legal".
	:: --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 14:53, 19 February 2007 (PST)		:: --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 14:53, 19 February 2007 (PST)

			::: But this isn't a generic legal context. It's a generic feminist context. Do feel free to disambiguate copyright law and legitimacy, though. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 15:07, 19 February 2007 (PST)

Lquilter: /* "legitimate" and copyright */ clar

2007-02-19T22:55:21Z

"legitimate" and copyright: clar

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:55, 19 February 2007
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	:: Yes, legitimacy has many different meanings, and legal status is but one type of legitimacy. But in the context of a discussion about fanfic which is specifically talking about copyright, it seems to imply "legal legitimacy", i.e., "licensed" or "authorized" or "not unlawful", etc. So, in that kind of a discussion, I would be wary of the term legitimacy.		:: Yes, legitimacy has many different meanings, and legal status is but one type of legitimacy. But in the context of a discussion about fanfic which is specifically talking about copyright, it seems to imply "legal legitimacy", i.e., "licensed" or "authorized" or "not unlawful", etc. So, in that kind of a discussion, I would be wary of the term legitimacy.
	::* The fact that "legal" legitimacy varies according to sovereignty / jurisdiction and according to social practice is, in fact, one reason why it's confusing to use the term "legitimacy" in a generic legal context (without specifying the body of law / practice that legitimates).		::* The fact that "legal" legitimacy varies according to sovereignty / jurisdiction and according to social practice is, in fact, one reason why it's confusing to use the term "legitimacy" in a generic legal context (without specifying the body of law / practice that legitimates).
	::* Also, I should say that as a political matter, beyond any issues of legal nuance and clarity, I resist the conflation of the normative notions of "legitimacy" with the legal definitions of "permissible," "authorized," "licensed," and "legal".		::* Also, I should say that as a political matter, beyond any issues of legal nuance and clarity, I resist the conflation of the normative notions of "legitimacy" (good, useful, socially constructive or beneficial, etc.) with the legal definitions of "permissible," "authorized," "licensed," and "legal".
	:: --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 14:53, 19 February 2007 (PST)		:: --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 14:53, 19 February 2007 (PST)

Lquilter: /* "legitimate" and copyright */ clar

2007-02-19T22:54:38Z

"legitimate" and copyright: clar

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:54, 19 February 2007
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	: Oh, I'm interested in the official legal perspective you can offer as a professional, but legitimacy isn't limited to ''written'' law alone, which itself changes depending on your country, your state, your town, etc. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)		: Oh, I'm interested in the official legal perspective you can offer as a professional, but legitimacy isn't limited to ''written'' law alone, which itself changes depending on your country, your state, your town, etc. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)

	:: Yes, legitimacy has many different meanings, and legal status is but one type of legitimacy. But in the context of a discussion about fanfic which is specifically talking about copyright, it seems to imply "licensed" or "authorized" ~~type legitimacy~~. So, in that kind of a discussion, I would be wary of the term legitimacy.		:: Yes, legitimacy has many different meanings, and legal status is but one type of legitimacy. But in the context of a discussion about fanfic which is specifically talking about copyright, it seems to imply "legal legitimacy", i.e., "licensed" or "authorized" or "not unlawful", etc. So, in that kind of a discussion, I would be wary of the term legitimacy.
	::* The fact that "legal" legitimacy varies according to sovereignty / jurisdiction and according to social practice is, in fact, one reason why it's confusing to use the term "legitimacy" in a generic legal context (without specifying the body of law / practice that legitimates).		::* The fact that "legal" legitimacy varies according to sovereignty / jurisdiction and according to social practice is, in fact, one reason why it's confusing to use the term "legitimacy" in a generic legal context (without specifying the body of law / practice that legitimates).
	::* Also, I should say that as a political matter, beyond any issues of legal nuance and clarity, I resist the conflation of the normative notions of "legitimacy" with the legal definitions of "permissible," "authorized," "licensed," and "legal".		::* Also, I should say that as a political matter, beyond any issues of legal nuance and clarity, I resist the conflation of the normative notions of "legitimacy" with the legal definitions of "permissible," "authorized," "licensed," and "legal".
	:: --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 14:53, 19 February 2007 (PST)		:: --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 14:53, 19 February 2007 (PST)

Lquilter: /* "legitimate" and copyright */ resps

2007-02-19T22:53:47Z

"legitimate" and copyright: resps

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:53, 19 February 2007
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	: Oh, I'm interested in the official legal perspective you can offer as a professional, but legitimacy isn't limited to ''written'' law alone, which itself changes depending on your country, your state, your town, etc. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)		: Oh, I'm interested in the official legal perspective you can offer as a professional, but legitimacy isn't limited to ''written'' law alone, which itself changes depending on your country, your state, your town, etc. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)

			:: Yes, legitimacy has many different meanings, and legal status is but one type of legitimacy. But in the context of a discussion about fanfic which is specifically talking about copyright, it seems to imply "licensed" or "authorized" type legitimacy. So, in that kind of a discussion, I would be wary of the term legitimacy.
			::* The fact that "legal" legitimacy varies according to sovereignty / jurisdiction and according to social practice is, in fact, one reason why it's confusing to use the term "legitimacy" in a generic legal context (without specifying the body of law / practice that legitimates).
			::* Also, I should say that as a political matter, beyond any issues of legal nuance and clarity, I resist the conflation of the normative notions of "legitimacy" with the legal definitions of "permissible," "authorized," "licensed," and "legal".
			:: --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 14:53, 19 February 2007 (PST)

Ide Cyan: response

2007-02-19T21:05:30Z

response

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:05, 19 February 2007
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	...and by using the "stub" template, I '''DON'T''' MEAN that you should DENATURE MY ANALYSIS. Just that a lot more information about fanfiction can be added to this entry.		...and by using the "stub" template, I '''DON'T''' MEAN that you should DENATURE MY ANALYSIS. Just that a lot more information about fanfiction can be added to this entry.
	--[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 01:05, 10 December 2006 (PST)		--[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 01:05, 10 December 2006 (PST)
	* Just clarifying: Since you posted it here, you don't get to control it any more, denatured or not. If you want it to remain "your" analysis, you should post it as an essay on the blog. (Also -- if this is going to be categorized "materialist analysis then it should probably be retitled, "Materialist analysis of fan fiction"; other approaches to fan fiction might reasonably find a home here, too.) --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:29, 18 February 2007 (PST)		: Just clarifying: Since you posted it here, you don't get to control it any more, denatured or not. If you want it to remain "your" analysis, you should post it as an essay on the blog. (Also -- if this is going to be categorized "materialist analysis then it should probably be retitled, "Materialist analysis of fan fiction"; other approaches to fan fiction might reasonably find a home here, too.) --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:29, 18 February 2007 (PST)

			::I don't own the page, but I wrote that initial article, and while I posted it here '''knowing''' it'll be edited, I have a right to be pissed off if someone fucks it up. See the [[Mary Sue]] entry where someone changed the meaning of a sentence to its opposite without having a clue what he was doing. g --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)

	=="legitimate" and copyright==		=="legitimate" and copyright==
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	I would just edit the article, but for two things. (1) I want to make sure I understand what the original author is getting at, and clarify my issues with the language, and have discussion first ... and (2) there seems to be an element of possessiveness in the above comment, so I wanted to work that out first, too. --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:29, 18 February 2007 (PST)		I would just edit the article, but for two things. (1) I want to make sure I understand what the original author is getting at, and clarify my issues with the language, and have discussion first ... and (2) there seems to be an element of possessiveness in the above comment, so I wanted to work that out first, too. --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:29, 18 February 2007 (PST)

			: Oh, I'm interested in the official legal perspective you can offer as a professional, but legitimacy isn't limited to ''written'' law alone, which itself changes depending on your country, your state, your town, etc. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 13:05, 19 February 2007 (PST)