Talk:French feminism theory - Revision history

Lquilter: resp

2007-03-15T01:03:10Z

resp

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	No, it doesn't. You're ghettoizing French feminists, because of this so-called "school" invented by Americans, and meanwhile you're treating the American women's movement as the default on this website. It's unbelievably insulting. Leaving the page "French feminism" ''as a critique of the American invention'' would perfectly indicate that it's not French feminism as a history or anything close to what French feminists as defined by themselves are doing. And it would allow the works of various Feminists from France to be integrated in the Wiki as a whole as they relate to various strands of feminist theory. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 16:49, 14 March 2007 (PDT)		No, it doesn't. You're ghettoizing French feminists, because of this so-called "school" invented by Americans, and meanwhile you're treating the American women's movement as the default on this website. It's unbelievably insulting. Leaving the page "French feminism" ''as a critique of the American invention'' would perfectly indicate that it's not French feminism as a history or anything close to what French feminists as defined by themselves are doing. And it would allow the works of various Feminists from France to be integrated in the Wiki as a whole as they relate to various strands of feminist theory. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 16:49, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

			: Well, having "French feminism" doesn't preclude also having "American feminism" and "British feminism" and "Indian feminism" and so on, so I don't really appreciate you suggesting that I'm ghettoizing, when I'm really working with a moving document. I take some issue with your characterization of the so-called "school"; I respect Delphy's analysis, but she's not the be-all and end-all of the world, truth, or feminism. So, I think it would be helpful to get something that accurately describes the ways French women's movement, history of feminism in France, and "French feminist theorists" or whatever is a relatively accurate name for that concept. ''You'' brought up the distinction, and I think it's a good and important one; but please don't accuse ''me'' of being insulting or ghettoizing for working with it. --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:03, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

Ide Cyan: response

2007-03-14T23:49:19Z

response

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	----		----
	I'm trying to rewrite this, so that we can have entries on (a) French women's movement & history of French feminism, as appropriate, and (b) on this concept. I've renamed it as "French feminism theory" but I'm not sure that's the best name. "French feminism school"? "French feminism analysis"? Something that clearly indicates that it's not necessarily "French feminism" as a whole or as a history. I chose "theory" because it seems to tie in better to "Continental theory" but do you have other ideas? Then, the "French feminism" and "French feminist" and "French feminists" can all redirect to a disambiguation page, which will link to both the theory page and a page that is a better survey of feminist thought and history in France. ... Does this seem like a reasonable approach? --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 12:23, 14 March 2007 (PDT)		I'm trying to rewrite this, so that we can have entries on (a) French women's movement & history of French feminism, as appropriate, and (b) on this concept. I've renamed it as "French feminism theory" but I'm not sure that's the best name. "French feminism school"? "French feminism analysis"? Something that clearly indicates that it's not necessarily "French feminism" as a whole or as a history. I chose "theory" because it seems to tie in better to "Continental theory" but do you have other ideas? Then, the "French feminism" and "French feminist" and "French feminists" can all redirect to a disambiguation page, which will link to both the theory page and a page that is a better survey of feminist thought and history in France. ... Does this seem like a reasonable approach? --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 12:23, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

			No, it doesn't. You're ghettoizing French feminists, because of this so-called "school" invented by Americans, and meanwhile you're treating the American women's movement as the default on this website. It's unbelievably insulting. Leaving the page "French feminism" ''as a critique of the American invention'' would perfectly indicate that it's not French feminism as a history or anything close to what French feminists as defined by themselves are doing. And it would allow the works of various Feminists from France to be integrated in the Wiki as a whole as they relate to various strands of feminist theory. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 16:49, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

Lquilter: approach

2007-03-14T19:23:36Z

approach

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	: --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 18:39, 10 March 2007 (PST)		: --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 18:39, 10 March 2007 (PST)

			----
			I'm trying to rewrite this, so that we can have entries on (a) French women's movement & history of French feminism, as appropriate, and (b) on this concept. I've renamed it as "French feminism theory" but I'm not sure that's the best name. "French feminism school"? "French feminism analysis"? Something that clearly indicates that it's not necessarily "French feminism" as a whole or as a history. I chose "theory" because it seems to tie in better to "Continental theory" but do you have other ideas? Then, the "French feminism" and "French feminist" and "French feminists" can all redirect to a disambiguation page, which will link to both the theory page and a page that is a better survey of feminist thought and history in France. ... Does this seem like a reasonable approach? --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 12:23, 14 March 2007 (PDT)

Lquilter: Talk:French feminism moved to Talk:French feminism theory

2007-03-14T19:18:58Z

Talk:French feminism moved to Talk:French feminism theory

← Older revision	Revision as of 12:18, 14 March 2007
(No difference)

Ide Cyan: response & Delphy quotes

2007-03-11T02:39:08Z

response & Delphy quotes

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:39, 10 March 2007
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	: I've just read Delphy's essay. The point cannot be made strongly enough that so-called "French Feminism" is a complete fabrication. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 18:17, 10 March 2007 (PST)		: I've just read Delphy's essay. The point cannot be made strongly enough that so-called "French Feminism" is a complete fabrication. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 18:17, 10 March 2007 (PST)

	* Seriously, though, I never understood the phrase "french feminism" to be intended to refer to feminist thought broadly or the women's movement in France, but rather a particular strand of continental philosophy that was self-defined as feminist. I think there are clear connections between Cixous, Wittig, etc. You don't?		Seriously, though, I never understood the phrase "french feminism" to be intended to refer to feminist thought broadly or the women's movement in France, but rather a particular strand of continental philosophy that was self-defined as feminist. I think there are clear connections between Cixous, Wittig, etc. You don't?

	I haven't read Delphy's essay - which one? (I don't know what you mean by fabrication; if you mean ''ex post'' analysis/definition, well, yeah.)		I haven't read Delphy's essay - which one? (I don't know what you mean by fabrication; if you mean ''ex post'' analysis/definition, well, yeah.)

	I do think it's very important to point out that the so-called French feminist school of thought has been critiqued by some feminists as anti-feminist ... --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:19, 10 March 2007 (PST)		I do think it's very important to point out that the so-called French feminist school of thought has been critiqued by some feminists as anti-feminist ... --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:19, 10 March 2007 (PST)

			: The essay by Delphy is the one I cite in the article. This is one of the examples she gives:

			:: Alison C. Young, dans un texte non daté (Institut de criminologie, Cambridge, Massachussetts), souhaite «Prendre les écrits d'une féministe matérialiste, comme Christine Delphy ou ceux du collectif de Question féministes», et les faire parler intertextuellement avec ceux de Julia Kristeva, ou de Monique Wittig, mettant ainsi Wittig avec Kristeva, et non à sa place... justemenent dans le collectif de ''Question féministes''! (''Penser le genre'', p. 357)

			: Delphy underlines how the Americans have been calling "feminists" writers who expressedly claim ''not'' to be feminists, like Cixous, and the imperialism of that contempt for these writers' opinions.

			: And yep, by "frabication", I do mean after-the-fact analysis. Another Delphy quote:

			:: ...le «texte» censé constituer l'original du French Feminism est une série de morceaux et de fragments (phrases, citations) extraits d'un univers hétérogène. Ces morceaux ne constituent pas un ensemble indépendemment du commentaire dans lequel ils sont insérés. Ceci justifie de considérer le corpus de commentaires comme une entité distincte de ses référents, de la même façon que le Talmud est à juste titre considéré comme distinct de la Torah. Mais nous ne disposons pas, comme dans le cas de la Torah, d'un autre texte original et homogène. (''Penser le genre'', pages 327-328.)

			: --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 18:39, 10 March 2007 (PST)

Lquilter: fabrication

2007-03-11T02:20:37Z

fabrication

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	* Seriously, though, I never understood the phrase "french feminism" to be intended to refer to feminist thought broadly or the women's movement in France, but rather a particular strand of continental philosophy that was self-defined as feminist. I think there are clear connections between Cixous, Wittig, etc. You don't?		* Seriously, though, I never understood the phrase "french feminism" to be intended to refer to feminist thought broadly or the women's movement in France, but rather a particular strand of continental philosophy that was self-defined as feminist. I think there are clear connections between Cixous, Wittig, etc. You don't?

	I haven't read Delphy's essay - which one?		I haven't read Delphy's essay - which one? (I don't know what you mean by fabrication; if you mean ''ex post'' analysis/definition, well, yeah.)

	I do think it's very important to point out that the so-called French feminist school of thought has been critiqued by some feminists as anti-feminist ... --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:19, 10 March 2007 (PST)		I do think it's very important to point out that the so-called French feminist school of thought has been critiqued by some feminists as anti-feminist ... --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:19, 10 March 2007 (PST)

Lquilter: resp

2007-03-11T02:19:33Z

resp

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:19, 10 March 2007
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	: I've just read Delphy's essay. The point cannot be made strongly enough that so-called "French Feminism" is a complete fabrication. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 18:17, 10 March 2007 (PST)		: I've just read Delphy's essay. The point cannot be made strongly enough that so-called "French Feminism" is a complete fabrication. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 18:17, 10 March 2007 (PST)

			* Seriously, though, I never understood the phrase "french feminism" to be intended to refer to feminist thought broadly or the women's movement in France, but rather a particular strand of continental philosophy that was self-defined as feminist. I think there are clear connections between Cixous, Wittig, etc. You don't?

			I haven't read Delphy's essay - which one?

			I do think it's very important to point out that the so-called French feminist school of thought has been critiqued by some feminists as anti-feminist ... --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:19, 10 March 2007 (PST)

Ide Cyan: Response

2007-03-11T02:17:10Z

Response

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	What, you don't think "refers" was adequately glib? --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:14, 10 March 2007 (PST)		What, you don't think "refers" was adequately glib? --[[User:Lquilter\|LQ]] 18:14, 10 March 2007 (PST)

			: I've just read Delphy's essay. The point cannot be made strongly enough that so-called "French Feminism" is a complete fabrication. --[[User:Ide Cyan\|Ide Cyan]] 18:17, 10 March 2007 (PST)

Lquilter: invention?

2007-03-11T02:14:30Z

invention?

New page

What, you don't think "refers" was adequately glib? --[[User:Lquilter|LQ]] 18:14, 10 March 2007 (PST)