Transsexuality as Trope (WisCon 31 panel) - Revision history

Lquilter: /* Transcript */ links

2007-06-01T03:11:58Z

Transcript: links

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:11, 31 May 2007
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	* [[Charlie Anders]] CA		* [[Charlie Anders]] CA

			===panelist intros===
	BC Holmes - various glbt people talking about how sf was great for alternative representations; they came up with a booklist and it looked like a lot of other lists and at some point i said actually this doesn't represent transsexual people's experience. no coming out to parents, worrying about gender, etc. the closest is the water cooler moment in ''[[Steel Beach]]'' / [[John Varley]] when someone is like ooh you've changed your gender, what's up with that. i was interested in talking about trans process as opposd to process.		BC Holmes - various glbt people talking about how sf was great for alternative representations; they came up with a booklist and it looked like a lot of other lists and at some point i said actually this doesn't represent transsexual people's experience. no coming out to parents, worrying about gender, etc. the closest is the water cooler moment in ''[[Steel Beach]]'' / [[John Varley]] when someone is like ooh you've changed your gender, what's up with that. i was interested in talking about trans process as opposd to process.

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	JP: i'm writing that down. it's 10 in the morning i'm not going to remember this.		JP: i'm writing that down. it's 10 in the morning i'm not going to remember this.

			===panelist discussion===
	LM: turning to CA & BCH - more about what encouraged you to request this panel. tell us what we did wrong.		LM: turning to CA & BCH - more about what encouraged you to request this panel. tell us what we did wrong.

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	EB: i'd like to say something. this came up speaking up gay/lesbian/bisexual issues. this came up a couple of years ago during brokeback mountain. there were people who were pissed off that it wasn't a heroic drag queen movie.		EB: i'd like to say something. this came up speaking up gay/lesbian/bisexual issues. this came up a couple of years ago during brokeback mountain. there were people who were pissed off that it wasn't a heroic drag queen movie.

	aud: Priscilla		aud: Priscilla (Priscilla, Queen of the Desert)

	karen swanberg (jennifer?) - about speaking up		karen swanberg (jennifer?) - about speaking up

	EB: ... there are, ~~actuualy~~, heroic drag queen movies exist and it's interesting to have something different altho it would be good to have one where the character doesn't die in the end. ... every single story cannot meet every reader's needs and desires. what i would like to see happen is to have enough stuff out there that each individual narrative does not have to serve as a poster child - i think it's not a quality issue so much as a quantity issue. and if you have a vibrant discussion going on -- you know when there's only one female character in a tv show when you're looking at it from a feminist perspective if she has any flaws you're pissed off but if there are 7 they can all be fucked up.		EB: ... there are, actually, heroic drag queen movies exist and it's interesting to have something different altho it would be good to have one where the character doesn't die in the end. ... every single story cannot meet every reader's needs and desires. what i would like to see happen is to have enough stuff out there that each individual narrative does not have to serve as a poster child -- i think it's not a quality issue so much as a quantity issue. and if you have a vibrant discussion going on -- you know when there's only one female character in a tv show when you're looking at it from a feminist perspective if she has any flaws you're pissed off but if there are 7 they can all be fucked up.

	LM: are you talking about [[Battlestar Galactica]]?		LM: are you talking about [[Battlestar Galactica]]?
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	LM: maybe ... sf assumption makes that if we could change gender fluidly wouldn't there be people in between		LM: maybe ... sf assumption makes that if we could change gender fluidly wouldn't there be people in between


			===audience getting into it===

	aud/Karen swanberg - this is true in [[Iain Banks]]' ... novel		aud/Karen swanberg - this is true in [[Iain Banks]]' ... novel
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	aud: ... in sf/f you don't see transition as the heroic journey. it brings up for me the question what is the trope of transsexuality - is it the transition, is it dysphoria, is it the capacity to change and become who you are		aud: ... in sf/f you don't see transition as the heroic journey. it brings up for me the question what is the trope of transsexuality - is it the transition, is it dysphoria, is it the capacity to change and become who you are

	CA: i would say ~~thhere~~ are some things better dealt w/ in mainstream fiction		CA: i would say there are some things better dealt w/ in mainstream fiction

	BCH: cmt		BCH: cmt
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	CA: why are you more intimidated to write a trans than african-american ...		CA: why are you more intimidated to write a trans than african-american ...

	LM: because it's ~~underpepresented~~		LM: because it's underrepresented

	EB: b/c i don't want to write the poster child and get it wrong		EB: b/c i don't want to write the poster child and get it wrong
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	...		...

	BCH: at ~~galacticon~~ - sitting at a panel and people talking about what would a third gender look like and i thought how can you guys not recognize all the third gender people around you?		BCH: at [[Gaylacticon]] - sitting at a panel and people talking about what would a [[third gender]] look like and i thought how can you guys not recognize all the third gender people around you?

	JP: took a long time for people to realize sexuality fluid not binary. people confused about sexuality bisexuality - people confused b/c i'm bi and married to a guy - i look at more people - tough for people to understand that people move across the spectrum.		JP: took a long time for people to realize sexuality fluid not binary. people confused about sexuality bisexuality - people confused b/c i'm bi and married to a guy - i look at more people - tough for people to understand that people move across the spectrum.
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	aud (aaron again?): if you sort of pause at that for a moment then there's a whole body of work about people who have transitioned or have changed something about their gender or who exist in a gender reality outside the binary but as a person who proposed the panel that annoyed charlie & bc last year - ... i realized that the panel i proposed is not what i envisioned ... this is a great next step ... the title was pushing the envelope ... i don't write fiction ... all i can say is that's not right that's not right but i can't see everything ...what i want is balanced breakfast ... i don't need every story to reflect all my experience ... middling amount of breakfast, i've read maybe 2-3 stories that satisified ... shadowman, sset this house in order, if i think of other ones i'll chime in. ... something in the story about a character with a non-standard gender in conflict with the world and that process and addressing that conflict. whereas ''[[Steel Beach]]'' however much i enjoyed that thought experiment doesn't address this		aud (aaron again?): if you sort of pause at that for a moment then there's a whole body of work about people who have transitioned or have changed something about their gender or who exist in a gender reality outside the binary but as a person who proposed the panel that annoyed charlie & bc last year - ... i realized that the panel i proposed is not what i envisioned ... this is a great next step ... the title was pushing the envelope ... i don't write fiction ... all i can say is that's not right that's not right but i can't see everything ...what i want is balanced breakfast ... i don't need every story to reflect all my experience ... middling amount of breakfast, i've read maybe 2-3 stories that satisified ... shadowman, sset this house in order, if i think of other ones i'll chime in. ... something in the story about a character with a non-standard gender in conflict with the world and that process and addressing that conflict. whereas ''[[Steel Beach]]'' however much i enjoyed that thought experiment doesn't address this

	... sarah monette ... etc, mostly missed ...		... sarah monette ... (etc, mostly missed, naming names...)

	LM: wow we could recreate that panel that pissed everyone off		LM: wow we could recreate that panel that pissed everyone off
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	EB: it's the big reveal sentence		EB: it's the big reveal sentence

			===more audience interactivity===
	aud (F w/ red shirt) - i want to get back to a practical problem - various with lots of representations. ... since we don't have that right now, there is a process where we get to that. eliz said something that i think is important. eliz said she's afraid		aud (F w/ red shirt) - i want to get back to a practical problem - various with lots of representations. ... since we don't have that right now, there is a process where we get to that. eliz said something that i think is important. eliz said she's afraid

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	aud (F w/ purple shirt) - i don't remember gender socializing from my parents i remember it from school - what's your mommie's name, oh now that's your mommy's name pat ...		aud (F w/ purple shirt) - i don't remember gender socializing from my parents i remember it from school - what's your mommie's name, oh now that's your mommy's name pat ...

	aud - ~~have~~ you read ''[[Mission Child]]'' / [[Maureen McHugh]]~~. definitely~~ explores ~~transofrmation~~ - FTM. something else interesting. i don't know if i can think of difficulty of transition that are also by choice. b/c in mission child and in a lot of things in glass house it's forced.		aud ([http://community.livejournal.com/wiscon/90204.html#cutid1]) - Have you read ''[[Mission Child]]'' / [[Maureen McHugh]]? Definitely explores transformation - FTM. something else interesting. i don't know if i can think of difficulty of transition that are also by choice. b/c in mission child and in a lot of things in glass house it's forced.

	aud - ''[[The Warrior Who Carried Life]]'' ([[Geoff Ryman]])		aud - ''[[The Warrior Who Carried Life]]'' ([[Geoff Ryman]])
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	LM: alas we're all people.		LM: alas we're all people.

	aud (M) - i hated that book - (''[[Mission Child]]'')		aud ([http://madcapricorn.livejournal.com/ M]) - i hated that book - (''[[Mission Child]]'')

	aud (black & green shirt) - purpose of having trans characters - i can't think of a book w/ sexually active trans characters		aud (black & green shirt) - purpose of having trans characters - i can't think of a book w/ sexually active trans characters

Lquilter: added

2007-06-01T02:54:20Z

added

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:54, 31 May 2007
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	==Panel reports, notes, transcripts==		==Panel reports, notes, transcripts==
	* http://epi-lj.livejournal.com/1576443.html		* [http://epi-lj.livejournal.com/1576443.html epi_lj]
	* [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/297759.html B.C. Holmes LJ]		* [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/297759.html B.C. Holmes LJ] and [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/298598.html more BC]
	* [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/298598.html more BC]
	* [http://charliegrrrl.livejournal.com/153006.html Charlie]		* [http://charliegrrrl.livejournal.com/153006.html Charlie]
	* [http://firecat.livejournal.com/469536.html Firecat]		* [http://firecat.livejournal.com/469536.html Firecat]
			* [http://community.livejournal.com/wiscon/90204.html#cutid1 jiawen] @ WisCon LJ

	==Transcript==		==Transcript==

Lquilter: firecat

2007-05-31T06:11:17Z

firecat

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:11, 30 May 2007
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	* [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/298598.html more BC]		* [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/298598.html more BC]
	* [http://charliegrrrl.livejournal.com/153006.html Charlie]		* [http://charliegrrrl.livejournal.com/153006.html Charlie]
			* [http://firecat.livejournal.com/469536.html Firecat]

	==Transcript==		==Transcript==

Lquilter: /* Panel reports, notes, transcripts */ added transcript

2007-05-31T05:47:27Z

Panel reports, notes, transcripts: added transcript

Show changes

Lquilter: links

2007-05-31T05:23:04Z

links

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:23, 30 May 2007
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	Much science fiction and fantasy of recent years deals with changing sex. But it treats it as a trope rather than a process: ''[[Larque on the Wing]]'', ''[[I Will Fear No Evil]]'', "Changes," the work of [[John Varley]]. While there is no denying the usefulness of transsexuality as a trope in discussing the social construction of gender, what are we missing by eliding transsexuality's nature as a process?		Much science fiction and fantasy of recent years deals with changing sex. But it treats it as a trope rather than a process: ''[[Larque on the Wing]]'', ''[[I Will Fear No Evil]]'', "Changes," the work of [[John Varley]]. While there is no denying the usefulness of transsexuality as a trope in discussing the social construction of gender, what are we missing by eliding transsexuality's nature as a process?

	M: [[Lyda Morehouse]], [[Charlie Anders]], [[Elizabeth Bear]], [[BC Holmes]], [[Jennifer Pelland]]		M: [[Lyda Morehouse]], [[Charlie Anders]], [[Elizabeth Bear]], [[B. C. Holmes]], [[Jennifer Pelland]]

	==Panel reports, notes, transcripts==		==Panel reports, notes, transcripts==
	* http://epi-lj.livejournal.com/1576443.html		* http://epi-lj.livejournal.com/1576443.html
	* [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/297759.html B.C. Holmes LJ]		* [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/297759.html B.C. Holmes LJ]
			* [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/298598.html more BC]
			* [http://charliegrrrl.livejournal.com/153006.html Charlie]

	[[Category:WisCon 31 panels]]		[[Category:WisCon 31 panels]]

Lquilter: notes

2007-05-31T05:20:15Z

notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:20, 30 May 2007
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	Feminism, Sex, and Gender•Assembly• Sunday, 10:00-11:15 a.m.		Feminism, Sex, and Gender•Assembly• Sunday, 10:00-11:15 a.m.

	Much science fiction and fantasy of recent years deals with changing sex. But it treats it as a trope rather than a process: Larque on the Wing, I Will Fear No Evil, "Changes," the work of John Varley. While there is no denying the usefulness of transsexuality as a trope in discussing the social construction of gender, what are we missing by eliding transsexuality's nature as a process?		Much science fiction and fantasy of recent years deals with changing sex. But it treats it as a trope rather than a process: ''[[Larque on the Wing]]'', ''[[I Will Fear No Evil]]'', "Changes," the work of [[John Varley]]. While there is no denying the usefulness of transsexuality as a trope in discussing the social construction of gender, what are we missing by eliding transsexuality's nature as a process?

	M: Lyda Morehouse, Charlie Anders, Elizabeth Bear, BC Holmes, Jennifer Pelland		M: [[Lyda Morehouse]], [[Charlie Anders]], [[Elizabeth Bear]], [[BC Holmes]], [[Jennifer Pelland]]

			==Panel reports, notes, transcripts==
			* http://epi-lj.livejournal.com/1576443.html
			* [http://bcholmes.livejournal.com/297759.html B.C. Holmes LJ]

	[[Category:WisCon 31 panels]]		[[Category:WisCon 31 panels]]

Lquilter: cat

2007-05-30T16:25:58Z

cat

New page

132 Transsexuality as Trope

Feminism, Sex, and Gender•Assembly• Sunday, 10:00-11:15 a.m.

Much science fiction and fantasy of recent years deals with changing sex. But it treats it as a trope rather than a process: Larque on the Wing, I Will Fear No Evil, "Changes," the work of John Varley. While there is no denying the usefulness of transsexuality as a trope in discussing the social construction of gender, what are we missing by eliding transsexuality's nature as a process?

M: Lyda Morehouse, Charlie Anders, Elizabeth Bear, BC Holmes, Jennifer Pelland

[[Category:WisCon 31 panels]]