Something Is Wrong on the Internet!

Originally published at Liz Henry's blog

Panel description from pocket program. What keeps you going at 4 am when there’s so much fail, and only you and your fellow Internet drama addicts stand against it like stubborn superheroes? Let’s talk about why Internet drama is important to us as activists and as fans, why we engage or disengage, and what it all means when ideas and personalities clash in public discussion of SF/F books, tv, fi c, and culture. M: Vito Excalibur, Liz Henry, Piglet, Julia Sparkymonster

vito: SOMETHING IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET!

Piglet: when i'm bored i go on Usenet and see who's said something stupid so i can flame out and get mad. Yay!

vito - Something is often wrong on the internet.

Wait, are you liveblogging this?

liz: well...yes ... i was kinda thinking...

vito: it's just the internet , right?

sparky: why do i have to harsh people's squee? and just watch women of color be raped and murdered and colonized. why can't i just chill out?

vito: Yeah and why aren't you out there shooting someone in the head?

sparkey: I go into a rage coma when people say that . I was at worldcon, and there was a huge flame war about modernism in sf. if we can flame out over something hg wells and henry james wrote to each other in some letters, then we can flame out over some gross disgusting racism.

vito: does internet drama help?

julia: (stuff)

piglet: i learned a lot from internet drama : we still need feminism. 20 years ago on soc.feminism. i don't hate my body. don't get discouraged on the first, fourth, and fifteenth conversations. The point has to be (and will be) made over and over. It did teach me. I learned something.

vito: convincing someone else takes time.

sparky: i have learned that i am ignorant about a lot of things. stuff i've learned. for example that i am deeply ignorant about latino culture

liz: i learned something this week. I was just reading a great article on mock spanish and its racism and how it reinforces whiteness. I had to reevaluate every time i might have said "no problemo".

sparkeymonster: west wing: kumar fake country liz: isn't that umm Bujold? sparky: Quman. I thought oh, well, maybe it's a good way to talk about islam or something. My friend finally pointed out to me, ever notice the fake country is never France or England? i was like ohhhhhh! now i get it!

piglet: how to apologize? not to defend, but to say, oh, you're right i'm sorry.

vito: what if you don't get that right?

vito: How not to make a heidipology. heidi in harry potter fandom is famous for her fake apologies (hilarious examples of passive aggressive non-apologies)

rubyfail, perl playmate fail. (link: geek feminism wiki! Acme::Playmate talk )

sparky: You might not comment immediately. Comment that you saw it, you're taking a break and will get back.

vito: What if I don't have time to deal with this? Can you participate if you don't have an hour a day to keep up? How long can you read racefail?

Liz: only an hour?!

sparky: (stuff)

liz i'ts important! keep up with it, if all your friends are paying attention to some issue then read about it .

aud: how DO we keep up with it?

liz: we need whatswrongontheinternet.com and reporters to update it.

sparkey: i call it livejournal.

liz: twitter is kind of good for it.

vito: linkspam.dreamwidth. metafandom, fandomwank, etc.

charlotte: if my sister wasn't keeping up with it, i wouldn't know lisa: what about ian who doesn't read the net, but i wanted to get him to be aware of racefail and what people would be talkng about at wiscon?

liz: Zines! newspapers! maybe we need print magazines about the internet drama.

(later thought edited in: print media is already like 1/3 "something happened on the internet" but it is very very slow and can't keep up, and misses quite a lot or doesn't cover it because it's too controversial or is about racism, or sex, and when they do it's not gossipy enough to be interesting. they don't know who to interview, and our journals are not legitimate sources. basically, there are no legitimate sources. )

sparkey: well people maybe need to own their responsibilty for that and do something about it (i.e. ian can read the internets once in a while...lol)

liz: like we should all know about the Great Blow JOb Wars of the feminist blogosphere. Aud: (collectively) Whut?

audience is NOT aware of the great blow job wars of 2005. what! we have lost our history. alas. get on the googles. Did I imagine it? look at Twisty Faster and it's all in there somewhere.

vito(or was it someone else?) : coffeeandink is sort of a reporter on internet fail. so good. commentary, links, status, analysis.

(general agreement amongst everyone on this point)

Liz: dale spender, principle that as a feminist i have to show the person i'm talking about what i'm going to say about them, and consider their response and feelings as a human being... and that considering that changes what i want to say. tried it with rachel m. and with theferrett from open source boob.

aud: what did they say?

liz: both talked w me and kind of thought about it and declined. maybe in the future we will get their perspective.

seal press drama. Sparkey explains the entire backstory. colonize this - good book!

feminist bloggers

vito sums up marcotte's response. she could have said oh damn i didn't see that, we fucked up. she could have said i'll think about it later and respond. "but she chose the 3rd path which was to say fuck you"

sparky further discusses marcotte's defensiveness fail WAM women in media conference. Liz: and i was like dang do i have to not read this blog now? because it's still good.

aud: what do you do when someone is awesome. omg they fail. really badly and they're your guest of honor in two weeks. just hypotheically...

liz: like, we should have spontaneous programming about mammoth fail right now. could we handle it

sparky: the bar is low vito: yes sparky; all a con com has to do is just not tell you to shut up because you're too sensitive, how hard is that? like, even just saying there is a concern about X, the con com has no official opinion on that.

sparky: this con in boston. Oh yay it's so awesome we have orson scott card! they somehow missed that whole thing. they had a crew to follow him around the con and stop him from saying messed up homophobic things.

vito: the entire last 12 years...

liz: why do they fear it! embrace it! let people go off! it's conversation! we *want* people to talk about difficult stuff and ideas!

aud: : sue jacobi ,age of american unreason. abuse of the intellectual in america. great book, read it.

julia: will shetterly... liz: were you pronouncing the asterisk? julia: yes. aud: don't say it three times. julia: i dont think i could have a really respectful conversation with him.

liz: Tools! macros, bingo cards. joy of drama!

vito: what about when your friend wrongs someone, who you don't like?

julia: oh, this is the part where i hate principles. really hard. say you love them and respect them and a privilege call out is an act of love and affection. i don't think you meant to do that, i don't think you're the most horrible person ever and i'm telling you because i think you can handle it

liz: We should keep in mind how it feels to be in that hotseat of having fucked up. it sucks when 2000 strangers are piling on you. I'm not necessarily saying pity them, but know they are shellshocked a bit. expect it.

danny: what seems to spark a particularly bad reaction is a bunchof people's reactions being called a "mob" - it is not a mob it is a lot of individuals having their own valid reactions.

liz: you might have to be particularly skilled at ignoring what people say about you, too, to be doing whatever you're doing. amanda marcotte has had to develop a thick skin, if been thru fire of taking fire from actual idiots, being a bit famous, then a person might misapply that thick skin when hearing criticism from allies.

sparkey: master's tools and vito. and, tone argument, anger not okay liz going to pick on you

liz: oh goody! you're talking about ME!

sparky: when i go get mad about something like a ramp not being here, i will be seen as more reasonable and polite. oh, julia is so passionate about disablity access. my anger is okay while liz's wont be.

liz: sometimes that's okay and helpful but sometimes I really dont like it when people appropriate my anger, i'm like, go have your own anger about your own issues!

sparky: yeah, as an ally, you have to suck it up, sometimes you fail

aud: misconception that what we're going for is zero fail. people afraid to fuck up. but people fuck up! i love to read fail and i love to snark. i don't hope for a fail-less universe

vito: i'm going to be a jerk and refer to my own post. I posted a conversation with imaginary david levine nice guy friend of friends but, imaginary david ravine. about one of my fuck ups which I won't go into. . do read it, it says what I wanted to express about that.

chris bifemmefatale: i get to where, i'm privileged and i'm not going to post about it but oh i wonder if i'm harming my friends or poc or trans friends by being silent...

vito: Interrupting you, with love and affection, i dont care about your guilt. do whatever you want.

Liz: how not to burn out ?

vito: sometimes taking it to protected spaces. deepad did that with locking some posts, after a while couldn't keep up with the random haters.

sparky: burnout in progressive communities. (some advice, i missed it)

aud: shetterly has an internet safe word for his friends now. aud: can we know what this word is???

• everyone cracks up*

vito: it would not work even if we knew it.

alan b: I am only one in horrible misogynist etc comunity and have to be there for my professional life. i feel sometimes like the only voice of sanity and i'm seen as the asshole.

liz: Hmm. Cry me a river??

• brief silence in room*

Julia: Yeah. You just have to suck it. piglet: You might just have to deal.

sparky: long serious answer to alan b liz: long serious answer to alan b, about women in tech conferences, having a guy running a hackathon say Mars needs women, and me agreeing but do i want to bring my friends into that situation just to be my backup, when it is full of fail and harm?

naamen: backup of, having a community, affirming for me, was this just fucked up ? or was it my imagination? not minions!

karen: if you're like, oh, i feel like such an asshole, keep in mind the Asshole theory of systems. every system needs one asshole.

vito: If you dont know who the asshole is, it's you.

liz: There's a danger of being a pet asshole, co-opted. The pet radical who makes a community feel like it is tolerant.

aud: it's important where you put your asshole. don't put them over you, you'll be covered in shit!

aud: suck it and deal with it is a valid response too.

julia: usually i have a whole discusson of why you need to suck it.

liz: my friend has a tag for #suckit. queenofspain on twitter.

closing thoughts- (i have forgotten them except piglet's)

piglet: and... people of color are not a hive mind