Talk:Pornography

order of discussion: Industry does not equal genre, but it does equal "medium"; literature is a medium/industry, and video/film is a medium/industry. It makes no sense to talk about video/film at the top; then talk about feminism; then talk about literature. --LQ 11:54, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

Industry is *work*. Work takes place across different media. The order is clear to me. --Ide Cyan 11:56, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

You added the "lit" piece at the end of the video section, so I'm guessing you intended that section to be about porn as an industry; however, it is actually quite obviously just a commentary about the porn magazine / film industry in the contemporary west. That's not even a holistic view of the "industry" which is not just about actors, not just about the west, not just about contemporary industry, and not just about film/vid but also Internet, sex shows, and so on. I think it would be more manageable to describe this section, honestly, as contemporary video/film industry; described as such, it is not "the industry" but is more clearly parallel to other aspects of the pornography industry over time. --LQ 12:05, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

Dude, I don't have *time* to make larger edits: your edits keep conflicting with mine. And leave my phrase about relations of production in! --Ide Cyan 12:09, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

No, your edits have been conflicting with mine! Ha. I keep saying I am going to tear myself away and go eat something, let you work, and then come back ... and I am going to do it now. The Internet will still be here when I get back. I hope.--LQ 12:23, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

Look, ideally the Industry section should detail all the areas that pornography specialises in. Then further sections can describe particular aspects of those & their analyses. I'm going to sleep soon, so I don't have the time or the energy to do that right now, especially if I keep conflicting with your edits, so I can only hope you'll that agree this structure makes sense. --Ide Cyan 12:17, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

No, sorry, I don't agree! But let's keep talking about it - I imagine we can come up with some sensible structure for this article. --LQ 12:21, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

relations of production

on the relations of production, ide cyan, this version:

The pornography industry keeps close ties to prostitution, if not in terms of business connections then in terms of means of production, since pornography is largely comprised of videos and images of actual people being paid to have sex, although pornography actors often disclaim the link between their jobs and prostitution, because they have different relations of production: pornography creates a product, whereas prostitution creates a service.

is much clearer than your first version, but it is still too simplistic. I think it would be better to just take out the whole clause, until and unless we are willing to write a paragraph laying that out. (And I think it would be a bit of a distraction.) --LQ 12:21, 12 March 2007 (PDT)

Leave it. It's important. The whole reason pornography is such a thorny issue is that it isn't simply art without actors. Those relations of production matter. (And you're the one who wrote "a definition which pornography actors usually contest" -- I emphasise the adverb -- and then lectured me about focusing on the west.) --Ide Cyan 12:31, 12 March 2007 (PDT)